Double Bass Avishai Cohen: Mixed micing/pickup

[MR PC]

Yeah Damon, that cat is great in the video. Other than the fact he's boring to watch, couldn't think of anything wrong here, wouldn't dream of making a negative comment about him.

 

[powerbass]

This is more to my taste in terms of both a natural amplified sound & left hand technique for contemporary jazz-based playing (even though he uses Billie - so lots of third finger):

Beautiful tone, relaxed, articulate, precise playing.

 

[Paul Warburton]

This is more to my taste in terms of both a natural amplified sound & left hand technique for contemporary jazz-based playing (even though he uses Billie - so lots of third finger):

Since when is it cool around here, when the thread's about one specific player to jump in with another, because you happen to like him better? IMO, very uncool. In other words, who gives a **** what your taste is?

 

[damonsmith]

It a thread about stage sound of a particular player, I think there are better examples. Did you forget where you are Paul? This is talkbass. I love you, too.

 

[Marc Piane]

I'm looking at micing for live jazz performance, and Avishai Cohen has one of the best LIVE upright bass sounds I've heard (in terms of being true to the sound of the instrument).

It looks to me like it's a REALIST pickup he's using. Anyone have any idea what his mic of choice is? And how is he is mixing the signals?

Here's a live video for reference:

Thanks

It a thread about stage sound of a particular player, I think there are better examples. Did you forget where you are Paul? This is talkbass. I love you, too.

So IME his question was not who has the best live tone but rather what is Avishai's method of amplifying HIS tone. 'Best' is totally subjective anyway.

Let's not forget Damon that you took this off topic in your first post by criticizing his technique which has NOTHING to do with the question posed.

 

[damonsmith]

So IME his question was not who has the best live tone but rather what is Avishai's method of amplifying HIS tone. 'Best' is totally subjective anyway.

Let's not forget Damon that you took this off topic in your first post by criticizing his technique which has NOTHING to do with the question posed.

I sure did. Guilty as charged, but just part of the fun here. I do like his playing AND his sound. He is just a bit over-hyped, IMO.

 

[MR PC]

He is just a bit over-hyped, IMO.

Your guy looked like he'd just had some bad tuna fish.

 

[Marc Piane]

This kind of stuff is the reason there aren't any good discussions here anymore. It just expected that someone is going to swoop in and poop on a thread. Too bad. I learned tons from this site.

 

[damonsmith]

Your guy looked like he'd just had some bad tuna fish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surströmming

 

[MR PC]

Hunted down, pulled in, processed, compressed into a can for consumption at a later date..that pretty much sums your example.

 

[Les Fret]

He is just a bit over-hyped, IMO.

That's a comment many players get that are popular like Esperanza or Avishai. Fact is that they appeal to a wide audience. That says something about their music and I don't consider that over-hyped. Would you rather want that they played for thirty people (mostly musicians) in a bar?

 

[Fran Diaz]

That's a comment many players get that are popular like Esperanza or Avishai. Fact is that they appeal to a wide audience. That says something about their music and I don't consider that over-hyped. Would you rather want that they played for thirty people (mostly musicians) in a bar?

I couldn't have said it better.

 

[damonsmith]

That's a comment many players get that are popular like Esperanza or Avishai. Fact is that they appeal to a wide audience. That says something about their music and I don't consider that over-hyped. Would you rather want that they played for thirty people (mostly musicians) in a bar?

Well, I don't fault them for it - I will say I prefer her approach to the instrument, but I prefer his music. I just think that among bass players we can be a little more discerning.

I think Avishai is prime example of an interesting bassist with a good amplified sound who got that famous. In the wider world he is a great example.

Here at talkbass, we can provide better examples. I am not trying to "take him down a peg". He is great, his career is amazing. Having said that, since they don't need us, it is OK to be a bit critical in a discussion among bass players - to me this is the only road to a "good" discussion.

When I get snippy about technique it is just because it is something I care about. I am all about unorthodox technique - but only to make unorthodox sounds. I am just someone who loves the long tradition of classical technique our instrument has. When I play pitch based music I think the traditional ways are better less forced and more elegant.
I don't also have a problem holding a millionaire adult to the same standards as my middle school bass students.

If we are dead honest about the solo clip: it is a clunkier version of a David Holland solo with a lot of amp sound and ton more rock and roll showmanship.

This community with our collective knowledge and experience should be able provide a wider view - even if those bassists we may cite play to smaller audiences. So yes, I do find it OK to put clips of other players in threads about a particular bassist. There are posters in this thread (PW, Piane) who, based on their sound and video clips are better examples for a young bassist to follow in terms of stage sound and bass playing.

I understand the question WAS specific to Avishai, but far wider talkbass style discussion is going be more interesting. The answer is pretty simple: Mic to the house + realist. The trouble there is booking yourself into houses as good as the ones he plays...

 

[damonsmith]

So a more focused, on topic answer:
Keep sound-people away from your amp, no DIs or anything. Only let them mic the bass. In the places Avishai plays the sound systems are generally amazing. I played Yoshi's in Oakland with a free jazz big band with no amp and just a house mic and it was amazing.
In smaller places, try to play acoustic - to this end, make sure you have a big acoustic sound, practice outside, use your body efficiently, etc.

 

[Daniel Jan]

Thanks Chris, good to know what you saw at his live shows. I actually was unfamiliar with the "amp onstage, miced acoustic sound to mains" method. The new trio is a different sound, but in the same lines. Ofri has a light touch for a drummer (he's a small guy), but then he really could open up in his solos. His use of a broad dynamic range was appealing. The group is more than the sum of it's parts, in the way they use rhythmical layering to build up a song's texture (as is Avishai's compositional style).

Damon, i thought it was funny that you stated Avishai's left-hand to be unorthodox in the same sentence as Charlie Haden. Don't get me wrong, I love Haden's playing (particularly with Metheny), but he's not one known for orthodoxy in the left hand, haha! Thanks for the introduction to Bobo Stenston and Fält!

And regarding technique, that (and a love for the music!) is why we study Bach, Bottesini and Beethoven. Without a solid technical foundation, it's impossible to be truly expressive as musicians.

 

[damonsmith]

Without a solid technical foundation, it's impossible to be truly expressive as musicians.

Not impossible, just harder! Charlie and Avishai are doing it just fine, more than fine. They are both incredible and especially in terms of expressiveness.
The rest of us just can't count on taking that road. It only matters in terms of an "example" to follow.

 

[MR PC]

This kind of stuff is the reason there aren't any good discussions here anymore. It just expected that someone is going to swoop in and poop on a thread. Too bad. I learned tons from this site.

Law of the TB DB jungle, unfortunately. This was established years ago when some formative members in an attempt to write and establish their own rules met new members with clenched fists before listening to anything they had to say.

That's a comment many players get that are popular like Esperanza or Avishai. Fact is that they appeal to a wide audience. That says something about their music and I don't consider that over-hyped. Would you rather want that they played for thirty people (mostly musicians) in a bar?

So true. I had to get some attitude adjustment on this issue myself.

 

[drurb]

Law of the TB DB jungle, unfortunately. This was established years ago when some formative members in an attempt to write and establish their own rules met new members with clenched fists before listening to anything they had to say.

That's similar to the negative and uncharitable views expressed about this community in this thread.

I just have never seen TB that way. As I posted in that earlier thread:

I think of TB as a local bar where folks sit around and exchange information. There are the regulars who get to know each other over years, have inside jokes, and can rib each other in good humor. New folks are welcome to come and pull up a chair. They should be greeted with open arms. You wouldn't, however, stroll into a bar as a newcomer and start right off with, "Hey you fools, let me tell you what it's all about." Or... "Hey I want to know about this right now!" Sure the analogy breaks down if you push it too far but you get the picture.

 

[Les Fret]

Keep sound-people away from your amp, no DIs or anything. Only let them mic the bass. In the places Avishai plays the sound systems are generally amazing.

But playing with a mic is not always possible. Especially not in bars or smaller stages. When it gets loud a mic will cause too much feedback and problems. In that case what do you do? I don't think you can do without a DI (before the amp) in most situations. Especially not in fusion stuff.

 

[damonsmith]

But playing with a mic is not always possible. Especially not in bars or smaller stages. When it gets loud a mic will cause too much feedback and problems. In that case what do you do? I don't think you can do without a DI (before the amp) in most situations. Especially not in fusion stuff.

If you show up self-contained, with an appropriate amp for the project and strong acoustic sound mic-the bass should be fine. If you end up in a arms race against a guitarist sending out DIs or whatever then a "nice" sound isn't in the cards that night and you can let the sound person have at it.
Even still, he most I ever like doing is letting them mic the amp.

In most smaller places the band is better of with no sound person interfering.