Avoiding left-hand turns when driving

[GIBrat51]

I always wondered if they would standardize that... they always made me very nervous...

 

[MJ5150]

I tried no left turn driving today. I drove out of my way and longer to get to my destinations.
These were places I go all the time and know the roads well. I can't imagine trying it in unfamiliar territory.
I think part of it too is how poorly thought out that infrastructure is in my city.

-Mike

 

[buldog5151bass]

Also depends where you are - in a city with a grid pattern is one thing, but other than thait is usually nor practical.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I tried no left turn driving today. I drove out of my way and longer to get to my destinations.
These were places I go all the time and know the roads well. I can't imagine trying it in unfamiliar territory.
I think part of it too is how poorly thought out that infrastructure is in my city.

-Mike

To be fair, UPS has a computer calculate the route and overlays it on a satnav.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Also depends where you are - in a city with a grid pattern is one thing, but other than thait is usually nor practical.

It could be hard in UK towns, especially if you entered a cul-de-sac... Or a one way system. Central Leeds or Coventry are bad enough when you can turn in any direction.

 

[guy n. cognito]

This article is pretty specific to Seattle, but it shows that yield to the left is not always a thing >

Getting There: Who has the right of way at traffic circles?

"The first to arrive at an uncontrolled intersection has the right-of-way, or when two vehicles arrive at an uncontrolled intersection at about the same time, the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right," Widstrand says. "This is true at all intersections with no stop signs or yield signs, regardless of whether or not there is a traffic circle, and regardless of the size of the intersecting streets."

So the driver in the circle first has the right of way. I could try to explain how that's exactly what I meant,but rather, can you explain how you think this is any different than a "roundabout" and specifically what differences exist?

 

[guy n. cognito]

According to wiki, France adopted the Brit way in 1983, and now it's a EU thing as well. So nay, here too enterers yield to the existing carousel. Well, not that a lot of drivers know or care anyway...

Here what @catcauphonic was talking about - traffic circles vs. roundabouts - is explained [article kinda sucks though, reader beware]. Apparently not every state makes the distinction:
Invalid Link Removed

That's what happens when you crowd source "knowledge".

 

[guy n. cognito]

Thanks for the link to this article. I was born and raised in NJ -- actually, in Neptune, Monmouth County, which is referenced in the article -- so jug handles have always seemed perfectly natural to me. I've lived in a half-dozen or so different states since moving away, and have long puzzled over why jug handles weren't used everywhere else: Granted that I'm biased, but they seem to me like a very sensible solution where there is not room for a dedicated left-turn lane on busy highways. But what really mystifies me is the hatred and vitriol they seem to engender in so many non-New Jerseyans. Even my (Pennsylvania-born) wife, who is generally a very reasonable person, has despised the entire state ever since she had her first experience driving there, for this reason alone. I just don't get it.

I get it. Requiring everyone to navigate an intersection twice because a handful of mo-rons can't navigate it once is illogical.

 

[HaphAsSard]

That's what happens when you crowd source "knowledge".

That's another story. At least a contributor bothered to add a reference. From Link Removed by the U.S. Department of Transportation:
"Some traffic circles require circulating traffic to yield to entering traffic. Sarasota, FL" (page 22 of .pdf file)

Also depends where you are - in a city with a grid pattern is one thing, but other than thait is usually nor practical.

Word. Take it from one who lives in a hilly, 2-millennium-year-old city: sometimes it just can't be done.

 

[Lobster11]

I get it. Requiring everyone to navigate an intersection twice because a handful of mo-rons can't navigate it once is illogical.

Actually, the "jughandles" that I was thinking about, which were common in the area where I grew up, are different from "cloverleafs" and don't involve going through the intersection twice. These are at T-intersections where there is a side road intersecting the main road only on one side. To make a left onto this side road from the main road, you exit to the right before the intersection onto a jughandle-shaped ramp -- that's why they're called "jug handles," right? -- that curves around to bring you to the traffic light from the side. Once it turns green, you proceed straight across onto the side road. So, it works just like a dedicated left-turn lane, only on the right-hand side of the road. To me this seems like a pretty elegant solution in places where widening the entire road to add an extra turn lane in the middle is impossible or impractical for some reason.

 

[tlc1976]

I know of one roundabout in my area, and another halfway downstate. The one up here is at a school so the only time it really functions is when a school day or a game lets out. The other one at the intersection of 2 state highways, well, it's just not possible to enter the roundabout without totally cutting somebody off, especially if you're pulling a trailer. People not even in the roundabout yet will enter from the entrance to your left and be ready to T-bone you before you can even get your whole car in. So I just use other roads to avoid them.

As far as the jughandles, they have one downstate where my daughter lives. I refuse to use it, it's a time and fuel waster, and doubles your risk for a crash. I just go up to the next light and make an easy left with no BS. Again, if I know I have to make a left somewhere to get to the other side, I choose the easiest spot to do it.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Actually, the "jughandles" that I was thinking about, which were common in the area where I grew up, are different from "cloverleafs" and don't involve going through the intersection twice. These are at T-intersections where there is a side road intersecting the main road only on one side. To make a left onto this side road from the main road, you exit to the right before the intersection onto a jughandle-shaped ramp -- that's why they're called "jug handles," right? -- that curves around to bring you to the traffic light from the side. Once it turns green, you proceed straight across onto the side road. So, it works just like a dedicated left-turn lane, only on the right-hand side of the road. To me this seems like a pretty elegant solution in places where widening the entire road to add an extra turn lane in the middle is impossible or impractical for some reason.

Hmmm, in the UK the nearest equivalents tend to go over or under the road the branch from, and then there may be a junction onto the minor road, but it means no attempt required to cross multi lane traffic. But maybe you are describing the same thing.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Spiral roundabouts are not uncommon in the UK. You pick your lane on entry (bear in mind that in the UK lane markings are on the road, so if there are other cars around it won't always be clear which one it is) and it spirals out to the exit you want with no need to change lanes on the roundabout.

The equivalent to the traffic circle is just a roundabout with traffic lights to allow people to definitely get on from time to time without needing any new traffic rules, which seems a much simpler solution.

Contrary to popular belief UK traffic lights are not necessarily on fixed timings, but may have sensors on or under the road to sense traffic and adjust timings. I know this from a research project I was on to help improve this, and I suppose I should add my traffic control system accreditation to my resume... That having been said I suspect that given reduced budgets a lot of the roadside loops are probably not functioning and a lot are back to fixed timings, or based on rush hour/other timings. There was talk of alternative methods to count cars to control timings, but I don't know what happened with that

 

[Lobster11]

Hmmm, in the UK the nearest equivalents tend to go over or under the road the branch from, and then there may be a junction onto the minor road, but it means no attempt required to cross multi lane traffic. But maybe you are describing the same thing.

Here's a diagram. "Type A" is the kind I was thinking about; "Type C" is what I referred to as a "cloverleaf." I don't recall ever seeing a "Type B," which evidently is designed specifically for U-turns.

Although it isn't indicated on the diagrams, in each case there is a traffic light in the intersection.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[guy n. cognito]

Here's a diagram. "Type A" is the kind I was thinking about; "Type C" is what I referred to as a "cloverleaf." I don't recall ever seeing a "Type B," which evidently is designed specifically for U-turns.

Although it isn't indicated on the diagrams, in each case there is a traffic light in the intersection.

Invalid Link Removed

So type A and C require navigating two separate junctions (a) or the same junction twice (c). And A still requires a left turn???

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Here's a diagram. "Type A" is the kind I was thinking about; "Type C" is what I referred to as a "cloverleaf." I don't recall ever seeing a "Type B," which evidently is designed specifically for U-turns.

Although it isn't indicated on the diagrams, in each case there is a traffic light in the intersection.

Invalid Link Removed

Ok, not what I imagined Type C I can see the logic of. The other two, to someone in the UK look bonkers, although you can do a U turn on some UK roads, it's just the inner part of B without the wild flourish to the side. A looks like someone described a roundabout badly to someone. I'll ask my wife about them as although she's a New Yorker by birth she spent about half her youth in New Jersey. She likes our roundabouts, at least...

 

[-Asdfgh-]

So type A and C require navigating two separate junctions (a) or the same junction twice (c). And A still requires a left turn???

I've seen junctions like A in the UK, but realise that we are driving on the left, and it's just a way of short-circuiting the cross roads.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Ok, not what I imagined Type C I can see the logic of. The other two, to someone in the UK look bonkers, although you can do a U turn on some UK roads, it's just the inner part of B without the wild flourish to the side. A looks like someone described a roundabout badly to someone. I'll ask my wife about them as although she's a New Yorker by birth she spent about half her youth in New Jersey. She likes our roundabouts, at least...

She says often parts of them are elevated?

She reiterated her love of roundabouts.

 

[catcauphonic]

Roundabouts are different than traffic (or 'calming') circles >

Roundabouts are usually used on arterials for faster traffic, and slightly larger ... you might have to stop or yield to enter it, but vehicles inside the circle have the right of way.

Traffic (or 'calming') circles are mostly in slower residential areas ... where you are supposed to yield to any vehicle entering from the right when you're going around it. And they're AKA calming circles because sometimes there's pretty flowers or trees planted inside it.

Unfortunately, people who infrequently encounter them don't have a clue on the laws or etiquette behind them. They're actually quite efficient ... not so much at calming, tho

This is why neither concept works well. In the US, you yield to traffic in the circle, or LEFT.....

I am in the US. 'Roundabout' is what you're describing, not a 'traffic circle.'

You yield left no matter what you call it.

This article is pretty specific to Seattle, but it shows that yield to the left is not always a thing >

Getting There: Who has the right of way at traffic circles?

"The first to arrive at an uncontrolled intersection has the right-of-way, or when two vehicles arrive at an uncontrolled intersection at about the same time, the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right," Widstrand says. "This is true at all intersections with no stop signs or yield signs, regardless of whether or not there is a traffic circle, and regardless of the size of the intersecting streets."

@guy n. cognito, this may be a regional thing that you just haven't encountered, but here's a pic of a typical Northwest 'traffic circle' ... residential areas in Seattle are loaded with them in lieu of stop or yield signs, which can be slightly confusing/nerve wracking on approach because they hardly slow some people down at all, plus you don't know if the other driver knows the rule of yielding to the right >

Aka 'calming circle' because it generally slows things down, and they are often beautified with flowers, trees, bird baths & houses, etc

 

[PortlandBass77]

I only avoid them when I know it's at an $$$ intersection....