• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Bach Cello Suites - editions, keys

Steve Freides

Steve Freides

Former Mannes College Theory Faculty
Supporting Member
Dec 11, 2007
2,576
1,508
Ridgewood, NJ
#1
If memory serves, when someone pointed me to a recording of the Bach Cello Suites played on upright bass, which was absolutely wonderful, the first movement of the first suite was in the key of A major.

Is that right?

How can I find this edition?

I think the original is in C, and I've played classical guitar transcriptions which are usually in G with the last string tuned down to D. I found one supposedly bass edition, but when I did the "look inside", the beginning of the first movement was in C - I could read it from my cello copies if that was the case.

I am looking for these not for myself, because they are far beyond my current ability on bass, but I have a student who plays electric bass and who has already done things with me like play the left hand of several Bach 2-Part Inventions. He needs an audition piece for college and I was thinking that hearing a Bach cello suite played on electric bass might have a good "wow" factor.

Thanks in advance.

-S-
 
#5
Andrew McGregor said:
If he's got a 5-string with enough frets, they're playable right off a cello part.
Click to expand...

He does have a 5-string with enough frets, but it seems to me that A-major would lay alot better on the instrument for that piece. The guitar version works well, and original works well because the cello has C and G strings, IMHO.

-S-
 
#7
PaulCannon said:
Solo tuning has the bassist tuning each string up a whole step. Edgar is "reading" the suite in G, but it sounds a whole step higher.
Click to expand...

Fascinating - could you or someone else please give me a little background about this concept and practice of "solo tuning?"

FWIW, it would drive me crazy to have it sound in A but be playing it in G. I've done enough old music to be able to tolerate a half-step flat most of the time but that's about my limit.

And that brings me back to my question - I would like recommendation for editions of the first cello suite, transcribed in _G_, for string bass.

-S-
 
#8
I just got off the phone with Hickey's, a music store in Ithica, NY that also sells over the Internet. They have an edition in which Suite #1 starts in G major - I don't know much more about it than that, but it was $25 for all six suites, and it will be winging its way to me shortly. I will post publisher, etc., when I get it.

-S-
 
#9
I got my copy of the Internation Edition, edited by Mark Bernat.

Suite #3, Bourree II, measure 12: as written, C#, Bb, C# - the Bb sounds like it ought to be a B-natural.

Anyone else find this and care to comment?

Thanks in advance.

-S-
 
#13
My motivation here was to find an appropriate selection for a college audition for one of my students. We've done, e.g., Bach 2-Part Inventions on guitar and electric bass, and he's auditioning at a school that's given him no guidelines as to what to play, so he's going to play one of the jazz charts from his high school jazz band, plus a Bach Suite movement.

I settled on the Bourree II from the Third Suite, but in order to put it into a more normal pop/rock/jazz electric bass register, I ended up inputting the entire movement (it's not long) into Sibelius, which worked out just fine. He's going to play it one octave below what's in the International edition, and since he plays a 5-string electric, the couple of low D's won't be a problem for him.

If anyone wants it, I don't think there is a copyright issue, let me know and I'll see if I can post the PDF I created as an image attachment to a message here.

-S-
 
#14
SteveFreides said:
I settled on the Bourree II from the Third Suite,
Click to expand...

I don't mean to call into question what you are teaching, but for the most part, most auditions will require both the Bourees as they actually constitute one movement. Bouree I = AABB then into Bouree II AABB then finally the end of the second Bouree D.C.'s to the beginning of the first , played w/o repeats and ends at the end of the first. FWIW.:hiding:
 
#15
koricancowboy said:
I don't mean to call into question what you are teaching, but for the most part, most auditions will require both the Bourees as they actually constitute one movement. Bouree I = AABB then into Bouree II AABB then finally the end of the second Bouree D.C.'s to the beginning of the first , played w/o repeats and ends at the end of the first. FWIW.:hiding:
Click to expand...

You are welcomed to call into question what I am teaching - if I didn't have a question, I wouldn't have asked. :)

The audition is for a small liberal arts college that has only a music minor but no music major. My student is hoping to be an English major or something along those lines, but he has lots of talent for music - he's also auditioning on bass clarinet, which he's played for years at school and he plays guitar nicely as well - and there is a scholarship possibility if he is accepted as a music minor. The school has a variety of bands and several "rock ensembles" and they've been reluctant to give us any further guidance about what to prepare for the audition on electric bass. I hope that explains things a bit better and also why I think just the one Bourree will be enough. His other selection will be one of his jazz band charts from high school.

In the meantime, I'll take a look at the first Bourree and see if I think he can get that up to speed in time - the audition is about a month away.

-S-
 
#16
Hi Steve,
I have 3 editions of the Bach Cello Suites.(1.) A cello edition published by International Music / edited by Hugo Becker. These are in the original cello keys. 1st suite in G, 2nd in D minor, etc.(sounding an octave higher than the bass) this is the range Edgar Meyer plays them in with solo strings that make it sound a whole step higher.
(2.) A transcription for bass published by Edition Peters / edited by Samuel Sterling. These are transposed to lower keys for the bass. 1st suite in C, etc.
(3.) An edition called Bach for Bass. Transcribed and transposed by Robert Rohe. I would recommend this edition for your electric bass student. The 1st suite is in the key of D major, which I think lays and sounds better than the key of C major. This edition is hand copied. I got it through Lemur Music.
I hope this is of some help. All my best, Bob Magnusson
 
#17
Hi, guys!! I'm a electric bass player and want to play (or, at least, try to do it) the Bach cello suites on my 4 string bass.

I've looking for an Edition which sounds well on the bass. It's important for me that it would be easy in fingerings for a 4 string electric bass in standard tunning (EADG)

What edition do you recommend me?
 
#19
SteveFreides said:
Fascinating - could you or someone else please give me a little background about this concept and practice of "solo tuning?"
Click to expand...

The whole instrument (if you tune in 4ths) gets tuned up a tone from bottom to top: F#,B,E,A. Although just about every string available can be purchased for solo tuning, it's a little tougher to find a low C# or an extended F# if you have a 5 string or extension. They are out there, but your choices will likely be limited.

The benefit is that it is higher and therefore easier to be heard above an orchestra. I think the instrument, the orchestration, and one's technique are a lot more influential factors, but it doesn't hurt. Dedicated solo basses, or "regular" basses with solo strings do often sound brighter/louder. I'm going to play devil's advocate and suggest that the dedicated basses are selected for these qualities with or without solo strings, and the "regular" basses sound this way because the solo strings are often brand new or rarely used and still have that new string twang.

As for background or "why" this happens, Bottesini wrote most of his solo music for this tuning. He was known to perform in various different tunings, (the second concerto in A minor sits really well in 5ths) and it became the accepted norm for solo works composed after his time. This becomes a problem when working on repertoire originally intended for a different tuning. Solo tuning has become the blanket tuning for most solo performances, but there have been a large variety of other tunings for double bass historically. 4ths has only recently become the norm. Dittersdorf, Hoffmeister, and a bunch of other rep was originally composed with Viennese tuning (F),A,D,F#,A in mind, and doesn't sit particularly well in 4ths or 5ths, because neither are what it was written for.

A lot of solo repertoire comes with piano reductions in both keys, and you can often get orchestral parts in both keys as well. Some people don't have access to or want to use solo strings, and some people don't have two basses they can use in recitals/performances if they intend to do other music not written for solo tuning (with piano or other instruments). I don't see solo tuning disappearing, but I do see bassists opening up to other tunings besides 4ths. 5ths is gaining momentum in a lot of places, and some people are taking on the challenge of Viennese tuning, or other alternate tunings that composers are writing for. Historically Informed Performances are happening on 3 string instruments and 5 string gut fretted instruments, Period bows are also out there etc. Both of these things can be troublesome, as they often involve some rather selective and inventive interpretations of the words "Historically Informed" and "Period". My personal favourite are performances where the bassist goes to great lengths to use an appropriate instrument, tuning, bow etc. and then is accompanied by a modern piano. Again, different conversations for different threads.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back