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Bach

#21
ugly_bassplayer said:
The rewards of practicing Bach on bass are many. If you choose something else as a challenge, nothing wrong that. Go grab the Omnibook....only about 3 lifetimes worth of stuff in that.

;)

But I agree the Mr Berlin's aesthetic choice for the said Bach piece....is to put it mildly....imo..... horrible beyond comprehension. I can't listen to more than 1. 1244444667 secs of it. He is a virtuoso player no doubt.....but.....his ablums.....for me...zzzzZzZz.

IMO.....
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The Omnibook is what I work out of occasionally and it's more in line with what I actually play. Patterns for Jazz is a good one to for short vocabulary pieces.

Berlin is a great educator, but honestly, there's almost nothing that he plays on albums that i like. The one and only song that he does that I DO like is his version of Nardis. And that's because he has another bass player with him on upright. I don't dig that chorussy thing he used, but I did transcribe his solo, which I thought was excellent.
 
#22
Spin Doctor said:
The Omnibook is what I work out of occasionally and it's more in line with what I actually play. Patterns for Jazz is a good one to for short vocabulary pieces.

Berlin is a great educator, but honestly, there's almost nothing that he plays on albums that i like. The one and only song that he does that I DO like is his version of Nardis.
Click to expand...

Nope....still can't get passed his "tone"
Sorry....I freaking love Jaco...but I seem allergic to Berlin......

It's always his horrible choice of musical aesthetics. Man is it cheesy and corny.
But hey... I'm a nobody so....take it as my simple listening tastes. I'm sure plenty of people think my band sux....I don't really mind.
 
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#26
I don't wanna derail Groots post too much, with JB trivia, but I'm interested in seeing a list of advantages to playing Bach.

Now I can definitely see the string skipping stuff in Bach being helpful, which to me is basically in the same vein as Josquin des Pres and his Bass Fitness book. Except of course it's more musical. The advantage of exercises is that they tend to make your playing more even.

Other than that,what you got?
 
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#28
Spin Doctor said:
I don't wanna derail Groots post too much, with JB trivia, but I'm interested in seeing a list of advantages to playing Bach.

Now I can definitely see the string skipping stuff in Bach being helpful, which to me is basically in the same vein as Josquin des Pres and his Bass Fitness book. Except of course it's more musical. The advantage of exercises is that they tend to make your playing more even.

Other than that,what you got?
Click to expand...

I've found that studying Bach has expanded my imagination and pallet, along with refining my technique.

On a technical level going through the cello suites, for instance, will take you through virtually every permutation of fingerings and musical patterns in 6 different keys. So that's a huge benefit.

They also take you through a huge spectrum of musical expression. Some people make the mistake of thinking that Bach's pieces are all to be played at an even pace as written. But they're supposed to be expressive, with tempos that ebb and flow and changing dynamics. I've found practicing his music to have a big impact on my expressiveness as a musician.

What you learn from Bach is that there is so much more to his music than just getting it under your fingers, the more time you spend with music the more you discover. I've been practicing the cello suites on and off for about 14 years, and every time I return to them I realize something new and sometimes revelatory. I consider myself a competent musician, but I've come to the realization that the cello suites alone are something that I could spend the rest of my life practicing and still learning from.

Some of the greatest musicians in the world have spent their entire musical lives practicing Bach. Yo-Yo Ma, for instance, has recorded the Cello Suites three times across his life, each recording is a bit more evolved, but he still says that he is only doing the best he can and is still learning from them.

An eye-opening point for me was hearing Rostropovitch discuss each of the cello suites. He was a brilliant composer and musician and I've found hearing how he understands Bach to be very inspirational.

There's also a documentary called Bach & Friends where some of the greatest musicians discuss how Bach influenced them as musicians. I think it's a great watch for anybody
 
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#29
Shanannigan said:
I've found that studying Bach has expanded my imagination and pallet, along with refining my technique.

On a technical level going through the cello suites, for instance, will take you through virtually every permutation of fingerings and musical patterns in 6 different keys. So that's a huge benefit.

They also take you through a huge spectrum of musical expression. Some people make the mistake of thinking that Bach's pieces are all to be played at an even pace as written. But they're supposed to be expressive, with tempos that ebb and flow and changing dynamics. I've found practicing his music to have a big impact on my expressiveness as a musician.

What you learn from Bach is that there is so much more to his music than just getting it under your fingers, the more time you spend with music the more you discover. I've been practicing the cello suites on and off for about 14 years, and every time I return to them I realize something new and sometimes revelatory. I consider myself a competent musician, but I've come to the realization that the cello suites alone are something that I could spend the rest of my life practicing and still learning from.

Some of the greatest musicians in the world have spent their entire musical lives practicing Bach. Yo-Yo Ma, for instance, has recorded the Cello Suites three times across his life, each recording is a bit more evolved, but he still says that he is only doing the best he can and is still learning from them.

An eye-opening point for me was hearing Rostropovitch discuss each of the cello suites. He was a brilliant composer and musician and I've found hearing how he understands Bach to be very inspirational.

There's also a documentary called Bach & Friends where some of the greatest musicians discuss how Bach influenced them as musicians. I think it's a great watch for anybody
Click to expand...


Good post!
 
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#30
gebass6 said:
Click to expand...


Spin Doctor said:
I'm generally pretty open minded about what people play and I get that Bach was great.
...
I tried, but I can't listen to that...
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The first 3 or 4 measures were nasty, verging on indefensible. I can't comment on the rest.

Spin Doctor said:
...
The advantage of exercises is that they tend to make your playing more even.

Other than that,what you got?
Click to expand...

IMHO, the point is to use the music to explore musicianship, not techniques. If you just use it with the objective of developing metronomic tempo and flat dynamics you will miss the point and get nothing from it.
Its about interpretation and communication. It's about the larger form, making the movements work as a whole by having something in common. What that something is is left to the individual, but as the Berlin track demonstrates, full artistic freedom can be a dangerous thing.
YMMV
 
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#31
Shanannigan said:
...

They also take you through a huge spectrum of musical expression. Some people make the mistake of thinking that Bach's pieces are all to be played at an even pace as written. But they're supposed to be expressive, with tempos that ebb and flow and changing dynamics. I've found practicing his music to have a big impact on my expressiveness as a musician.

What you learn from Bach is that there is so much more to his music than just getting it under your fingers, the more time you spend with music the more you discover. I've been practicing the cello suites on and off for about 14 years, and every time I return to them I realize something new and sometimes revelatory. I consider myself a competent musician, but I've come to the realization that the cello suites alone are something that I could spend the rest of my life practicing and still learning from.

...
Click to expand...

This.
 
#36
Spin Doctor said:
I don't wanna derail Groots post too much, with JB trivia, but I'm interested in seeing a list of advantages to playing Bach.

Now I can definitely see the string skipping stuff in Bach being helpful, which to me is basically in the same vein as Josquin des Pres and his Bass Fitness book. Except of course it's more musical. The advantage of exercises is that they tend to make your playing more even.

Other than that,what you got?
Click to expand...
Good question Dr.
The agility, shifting techniques, learning to play arpeggios up and new fingering approaches.

The beauty I hear is just my opinion.
 
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#39
IamGroot said:
Not my thing.
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That's strange! Why are the violin sonatas more suitable or better for bass in your opinion than the cello suites? The cello suites are regarded highly as top study material.

I think it doesn't really matter which one you take. They are all good practice. But I have rarely heard a convincing electric bass recording, even not from the greats like Pattituci or Jeff Berlin. Performing classical music is a different kind of art.
 

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