Bach

[IamGroot]

That's strange! Why are the violin sonatas more suitable or better for bass in your opinion than the cello suites? The cello suites are regarded highly as top study material.

I think it doesn't really matter which one you take. They are all good practice. But I have rarely heard a convincing electric bass recording, even not from the greats like Pattituci or Jeff Berlin. Performing classical music is a different kind of art.

I haven't seen anything by Bach that wasn't' perfect and genius. DB players tackle the Cello Suites as a real stretch. They dont do the violin suites for a very obvious reason. The violin suites doable on electric bass, but they are tough.

What really bugs me is the bass parrot syndrome. Bass players want to play some Bach and feel obligated to start with the Cello Suites because "the cello suites are regarded as top study material" and wanting to play something other rhan cello is "strange".

Bach was a master composer for every instrument he touched and doubly so on keyboard. You can extract the melody lines from works such as The Goldberg Suites" and find a lot of good study. Play the individual lines from the Brandenburg Suites and be amazed at how it all fits together.

When Bach wrote for the violin, I feel he liked to showcase the agility of the instrument like Van Halen would do guitar.

Bur, hey, there is only one way to check this out and that is to go DO it, and dont listen to the bass parrots.

 

[Les Fret]

I haven't seen anything by Bach that wasn't' perfect and genius. DB players tackle the Cello Suites as a real stretch. They dont do the violin suites for a very obvious reason. The violin suites doable on electric bass, but they are tough.

What really bugs me is the bass parrot syndrome. Bass players want to play some Bach and feel obligated to start with the Cello Suites because "the cello suites are regarded as top study material" and wanting to play something other rhan cello is "strange".

Bach was a master composer for every instrument he touched and doubly so on keyboard. You can extract the melody lines from works such as The Goldberg Suites" and find a lot of good study. Play the individual lines from the Brandenburg Suites and be amazed at how it all fits together.

When Bach wrote for the violin, I feel he liked to showcase the agility of the instrument like Van Halen would do guitar.

Bur, hey, there is only one way to check this out and that is to go DO it, and dont listen to the bass parrots.

I don't think there exist something as bass parrots.

Sure you can play anything on any instrument but in all honesty they sound way better on violin and cello.

Most bass players see them as a technical challenge but forget to make music out of it. I have never come across an electric bass player would can compete with the best violin or cello player when I comes to Bach or any other classical piece for that matter. It mostly is mediocre at most.

 

[Flamingo21]

I have never come across an electric bass player would can compete with the best violin or cello player when I comes to Bach or any other classical piece for that matter. It mostly is mediocre at most.

That's no reason for not playing them, and learning a lot, and enjoying the experience.

 

[SteveCS]

I haven't seen anything by Bach that wasn't' perfect and genius. DB players tackle the Cello Suites as a real stretch. They dont do the violin suites for a very obvious reason. The violin suites doable on electric bass, but they are tough.

What really bugs me is the bass parrot syndrome. Bass players want to play some Bach and feel obligated to start with the Cello Suites because "the cello suites are regarded as top study material" and wanting to play something other rhan cello is "strange".

Bach was a master composer for every instrument he touched and doubly so on keyboard. You can extract the melody lines from works such as The Goldberg Suites" and find a lot of good study. Play the individual lines from the Brandenburg Suites and be amazed at how it all fits together.

When Bach wrote for the violin, I feel he liked to showcase the agility of the instrument like Van Halen would do guitar.

Bur, hey, there is only one way to check this out and that is to go DO it, and dont listen to the bass parrots.

I totally agree, other than the parrot syndrome.

Bach was as much a transposer as a composer. He reused and refactored vast swathes of his own music - sometimes just phrases, sometimes more - for a variety of instruments/voices, ensembles, settings and purposes (secular to sacred and back again). To my mind that makes it all fair game to any instrumentalist, including us bass players.

I've no doubt Parrot Syndrome exists, but that's not a reason to avoid the cello stuff, and electing to play/study the Cello Suites does not automatically make one a parrot, IMHO, any more than playing Teen Town, Autumn Leaves or Giant Steps.

 

[IamGroot]

I don't think there exist something as bass parrots.

Sure you can play anything on any instrument but in all honesty they sound way better on violin and cello.

Most bass players see them as a technical challenge but forget to make music out of it. I have never come across an electric bass player would can compete with the best violin or cello player when I comes to Bach or any other classical piece for that matter. It mostly is mediocre at most.

The electric bass lacks a lot of the nuances of a bowed instrument so i agree bass covers often wont sound as good.

Same goes for guitar covers of Bach. Some work, but the Chaconne, er, no.

 

[Les Fret]

The electric bass lacks a lot of the nuances of a bowed instrument so i agree bass covers often wont sound as good.

Same goes for guitar covers of Bach. Some work, but the Chaconne, er, no.

The Chaconne on classical guitar is really nice. As are the lute suites. I also studied classical guitar and these pieces are standard study and performance materials on conservatories.

 

[BassChuck]

Playing any solo melody by Bach is extremely valuable. However, if your interests is totally in using them as a great sounding finger exercise, there are plenty of other things to play.
But, to learn from Bach how harmonic energy can be expressed in melodic form, there are no better composers. If you really want to get into it, you might check this out (Kindle version is cheaper)

https://www.amazon.com/Bachs-Cello-...is+of+bach+cello+suites&qid=1578234173&sr=8-1

 

[SteveCS]

...

Most bass players see them as a technical challenge but forget to make music out of it. I ...

Agree. Most electric bass players wouldn't know where to start. Modern teaching seems to be all about metronomic tempo and even dynamics, both of which will get you nowhere with the Cello Suites. The Berlin example was dreadful, and I looked up a Patitucci version that was much better, but still somewhat disappionting as it had no consistency of form, with disparate, seemingly random phrasing that rendered the whole thing confused and rather pointless. A prelude to nothing, if you like...

 

[Boogiepop]

The electric bass lacks a lot of the nuances of a bowed instrument so i agree bass covers often wont sound as good.

Same goes for guitar covers of Bach. Some work, but the Chaconne, er, no.

Respectfully, I must disagree.



B.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Agree. Most electric bass players wouldn't know where to start. Modern teaching seems to be all about metronomic tempo and even dynamics, both of which will get you nowhere with the Cello Suites. The Berlin example was dreadful, and I looked up a Patitucci version that was much better, but still somewhat disappionting as it had no consistency of form, with disparate, seemingly random phrasing that rendered the whole thing confused and rather pointless. A prelude to nothing, if you like...

I remember that Patitucci performance (the one he did in the 80's, is that right?) and I felt the same way about it. Having said that, John is one of my all time favorite bassists, so I'm not holding his uninspired Bach performance against him, since I absolutely know that he understands how to phrase a line.

Honestly, I feel that if you mainly perform in group/ band settings, that Bach subtlety can get lost in the sauce and when it comes time to solo, you can get your phrasing lessons from the people that really move you. I can't say that learning Bach won't help, but you have to know what you goal is if you plan to get into it.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I love Jeff, but I gotta get one more roast in. Stay with it until :30 for a dose of music-school funk in all its glory. Stay 'till 1:00 if you can make it:

One of my (many) problems with Jeff Berlin compositions is that they tend to start with useless and non musical BS, then the rest of the song is "meh". I think he should just stick to teaching.

 

[dreamadream99]

You can get it free online.

No way. I always purchase the music from the publisher. I want to make sure Johann gets his royalties.

 

[Flamingo21]

No way. I always purchase the music from the publisher. I want to make sure Johann gets his royalties.

He is very grateful.

 

[IamGroot]

Playing any solo melody by Bach is extremely valuable. However, if your interests is totally in using them as a great sounding finger exercise, there are plenty of other things to play.
But, to learn from Bach how harmonic energy can be expressed in melodic form, there are no better composers. If you really want to get into it, you might check this out (Kindle version is cheaper)

https://www.amazon.com/Bachs-Cello-...is+of+bach+cello+suites&qid=1578234173&sr=8-1

No way. I always purchase the music from the publisher. I want to make sure Johann gets his royalties.

Bach's 2nd wife, Anna,, died in extreme poverty .

 

[IamGroot]

Also try Bach's flute music. It's a C instrument, so no transposing (well, not the same octave).

This guys name is Simon Zauels. Notice how clean and crisp his playing is?

Simon Zauels - Bass Musician Magazine, The Face of Bass



Musical education


1997 - 2006
Cello lessons at the district music school in Ahrweiler
with Katharina Ulrich and
at the Landesmusikgymnasium Montabaur with Wolfgang Borggrefe

2005 - 2008
E-bass lessons at the district music school in Ahrweiler with Gregor Salz

2008 - 2011
E-Bass lessons with Marius Goldhammer (E-Bass Lecturer at the Cologne University of Music)

October 2011
Start of music studies with the course "Jazz and Current Music"
at the Saar University of Music with the main subject of electric bass
E-bass lessons with Stefan Scheib

September 2016
Start of the master’s degree at the Popakademie in Mannheim
E-bass lessons with Frank Itt



short biography


Simon Zauels started playing the cello at the age of six.
After 10 years of cello lessons and a two-year stay
at the Landesmusikgymnasium Montabaur, he changed due to new musical
Interests from cello to electric bass.
After gaining his first experience in various rock bands,
he discovered the musical styles of jazz, funk, fusion for himself and decided
then decided to study jazz at the Saar University of Music.
Since then he has played as a bass player in some formations in Saarland and beyond.
There followed appearances at the Jazz Rally Düsseldorf,
as part of the North Sea Jazz Festival, with the Saarland State Theater Orchestra,
as a supporting act for Pee Wee Ellis, Kyle Eastwood, Ali Haurand Quintett and many more.

In February 2013 he passed the entrance examination at the "California Jazz Conservatory"
passed in Berkeley California and got some inspiration from it
through the electric bass lessons with Kai Eckhardt.

His other electric bass teachers include Marius Goldhammer
and his main subject teacher at the Saar University of Music, Stefan Scheib,
as well as his current teacher Frank Itt.

He also attended workshops with well-known musicians such as:
Ulla Oster, Nicole Badila, Sebastian Gramss, Christian Lillinger, Sheila Jordan,
Kristin Korb, Jürgen Attig, Johannes Fries and Christina Fuchs.

Ausbildung


1997 – 2006
Cellounterricht an der Kreismusikschule in Ahrweiler
bei Katharina Ulrich sowie
am Landesmusikgymnasium Montabaur bei Wolfgang Borggrefe

2005 - 2008
E-Bass Unterricht an der Kreismusikschule Ahrweiler bei Gregor Salz

2008 - 2011
E-Bass Unterricht bei Marius Goldhammer (E-Bass Dozent Musikhochschule Köln)

Oktober 2011
Beginn des Musikstudiums mit dem Studiengang „Jazz und Aktuelle Musik“
an der Hochschule für Musik Saar mit dem Hauptfach E-Bass
E-Bass Unterricht bei Stefan Scheib

September 2016
Beginn des Masterstudiums an der Popakademie in Mannheim
E-Bass Unterricht bei Frank Itt



Kurzbiographie


Simon Zauels begann bereits im Alter von sechs Jahren mit dem Cello Spiel.
Nach 10 Jahren Cello Unterricht und einem zweijährigen Aufenthalt
am Landesmusikgymnasium Montabaur, wechselte er aufgrund neuer musikalischer
Interessen vom Cello zum E-Bass.
Nachdem er seine ersten Erfahrungen in verschiedenen Rock Bands sammelte,
entdeckte er die Musikstile des Jazz, Funk, Fusion für sich und entschied
sich daraufhin für ein Jazz Studium an der Hochschule für Musik Saar.
Seitdem spielt er als Bassist in einigen Formationen im Saarland und darüber hinaus.
Es folgten Auftritte bei der Jazz Rally Düsseldorf,
im Rahmen des North Sea Jazz Festivals, mit dem Orchester des Saarländischen Staatstheaters,
als Vorgruppe von Pee Wee Ellis, Kyle Eastwood, Ali Haurand Quintett und vielen mehr.

Im Februar 2013 hat er die Aufnahmeprüfung am „California Jazz Conservatory“
in Berkeley Kalifornien bestanden und erhielt dadurch einige Inspirationen
durch den E-Bass Unterricht bei Kai Eckhardt.

Zu seinen weiteren E-Bass Lehrern gehören Marius Goldhammer
und sein Hauptfachlehrer an der Hochschule für Musik Saar, Stefan Scheib,
sowie sein derzeitiger Lehrer Frank Itt.

Er besuchte außerdem Workshops bei namhaften Musikern wie:
Ulla Oster, Nicole Badila, Sebastian Gramss, Christian Lillinger, Sheila Jordan,
Kristin Korb, Jürgen Attig, Johannes Fries und Christina Fuchs.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

I have never come across an electric bass player would can compete with the best violin or cello player when I comes to Bach or any other classical piece for that matter. It mostly is mediocre at most.

I'm an electric bass player who can’t compete with the worst violin or cello player when it comes to Bach or any other classical piece. But since nobody is offering me a stool on the stage at Roy Thompson Hall, the point is moot at best.

I play Bach for no other reason than the fact that the music appeals to me. It won’t get me fame or adulation. My practice videos won’t get me views or a revenue. I won’t get a spot in a band using Bach for my audition.

It’s not obvious to me at all that I should even be working on Bach at this exact moment from a progression point of view. I probably will go farther, faster, with exercises and lessons than I will working on the suites, the well-tempered clavier, and on the inventions.

But since I love the music itself, working on playing it—badly—is its own reward. And just as I’m open to working on his simpler keyboard pieces, I’ll give his other solo instrument work a listen. Maybe a violin or flute piece will make its way into my backlog.

I have no evidence playing Bach is the best road for anyone except those who love it for its own reward. It may never help anyone be more than mediocre when compared to the playing of those who spend a lifetime mastering the original instrument.

But then again, none of us skate like Tony Hawk. That’s no reason not to skate.

 

[La Faro]

 

[Boogiepop]

I'm an electric bass player who can’t compete with the worst violin or cello player when it comes to Bach or any other classical piece. But since nobody is offering me a stool on the stage at Roy Thompson Hall, the point is moot at best.

I play Bach for no other reason than the fact that the music appeals to me. It won’t get me fame or adulation. My practice videos won’t get me views or a revenue. I won’t get a spot in a band using Bach for my audition.

It’s not obvious to me at all that I should even be working on Bach at this exact moment from a progression point of view. I probably will go farther, faster, with exercises and lessons than I will working on the suites, the well-tempered clavier, and on the inventions.

But since I love the music itself, working on playing it—badly—is its own reward. And just as I’m open to working on his simpler keyboard pieces, I’ll give his other solo instrument work a listen. Maybe a violin or flute piece will make its way into my backlog.

I have no evidence playing Bach is the best road for anyone except those who love it for its own reward. It may never help anyone be more than mediocre when compared to the playing of those who spend a lifetime mastering the original instrument.

But then again, none of us skate like Tony Hawk. That’s no reason not to skate.

10,000 likes.

I'm right there with you, brother.

B.

 

[Reg Braithwaite]

es are regarded as top study material" and wanting to play something other rhan cello is "strange". Bach was a master composer for every instrument he touched and doubly so on keyboard. You can extract the melody lines from works such as The Goldberg Suites" and find a lot of good study. Play the individual lines from the Brandenburg Suites and be amazed at how it all fits together.

I’m with you on this. There is so, so much more out there than this one prelude to this one suite, no matter how popular it is. But that being said, if you aren’t exposed to anything else, what are you going to do except follow the well-trodden path?

Nobody (for some loose value of “nobody”) cared about the Cello Suites until Casals decided to devote himself to mastering them. I’m not as familiar with them, but I think the same is true of Bach’s flute sonatas and Rampal (he wasn’t the first to record them, by far, and his first love was Mozart, but he had a huge role in popularizing the flute as a solo instrument in the 20th century).

If we can accept that these beautiful works lay fallow and unnoticed for a century or more, we can accept that right this very minute, there are great musical works that aren’t “popular.” And they’re just as rewarding to learn as the “standards.”

But we have to find them. And that starts with letting go of the idea that we absolutely, positively must learn the popular pieces first. And it’s not like we need to find rare works by obscure composers.

We just have to broaden our minds and embrace the possibility that we have much to learn from lots of music, not just the pieces everybody learns to play.

 

[La Faro]

There's a 'That Pedal Show' recently featuring Adam Neely, that led me to linking the older video of him performing the whole piece.


Coincidentally a Vox video came on my stream the next day.


During which they talk about it's a short piece and not super complex, and has a simple a structure and concepts. But that its also suited to the cello due to open strings are fifths apart, and the piece allows these for simpler playing.

Prelude, Cello Suite No. 1 in G major, BWV 1007 - Wikisource

Adam Neely in the 'That Pedal Show' say how he had to adapt it to the bass, because of the tuning differences

Then coincidentally the next day I see this thread, and link the video. I see another suggested video of a bass player in a turtle neck and it's way to pretentious vibe.

Then the next day I see this video suggested. and I notice he's paying it very differently, partly because Adam's was a 5 string strung E-C, but he is using the open strings.



I've been having ago at this is little stabs of time, rather than a committed to a I must master this piece frame of mind. But it does seem an achievable, ad I think I can learn a lot from it. Learning 'I want you back' I noticed different videos with players plain exactly the same bass line, but all over the neck, some using open strings some note. There were so many nuggets in the track that helped my develop, I thin this one will be the same.

4 days in a row, seeing something related to the piece, if feels like a sign, maybe the Universe is teling me something! Of course it's bloody not, it's just coincidences, but I believe in coincidences.