Backing/click track cover band support group needed

[hrodbert696]

So it's karaoke with instruments?

Suppose you wanted to cover this song (listen to it carefully if you don't already know it):


...and you have a band with bass, drums, and two guitars, but no keys or horns or strings.

You have three options:

1) don't play the song - but let's assume you don't want to limit yourself and cop out on a challenge.
2) do an arrangement with the instruments you have. Fine, but maybe it's too empty or missing too much of the texture of the original to really go over that way.
3) record the keys/horn/string parts to a click track, and roll it while performing.

Your drummer is drumming, bass is grooving, guitarists are doing their guitar thing, singer is singing, and some of the background tones of keys and horns are in the PA to flesh out the song's texture at points where it's needed. In what sense is this "karaoke with instruments?" You MIGHT call it that if you had a whole band prerecorded and the ONLY live performance was the singer or one instrument. But if you've paid any attention to this thread and the people who talk about how their bands have done it, that's not what anyone is talking about.

 

[fhm555]

Suppose you wanted to cover this song (listen to it carefully if you don't already know it):


...and you have a band with bass, drums, and two guitars, but no keys or horns or strings.

You have three options:

1) don't play the song - but let's assume you don't want to limit yourself and cop out on a challenge.
2) do an arrangement with the instruments you have. Fine, but maybe it's too empty or missing too much of the texture of the original to really go over that way.
3) record the keys/horn/string parts to a click track, and roll it while performing.

Your drummer is drumming, bass is grooving, guitarists are doing their guitar thing, singer is singing, and some of the background tones of keys and horns are in the PA to flesh out the song's texture at points where it's needed. In what sense is this "karaoke with instruments?" You MIGHT call it that if you had a whole band prerecorded and the ONLY live performance was the singer or one instrument. But if you've paid any attention to this thread and the people who talk about how their bands have done it, that's not what anyone is talking about.

So it is karaoke with instruments. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Michael Schreiber]

I don't see where the problem is, if someone calls it "karaoke with instruments" - isn't it rather approproate than calling it 100% live?

Whether that's good or bad / desireable or not would be up to the audience, methinks.
At least, I wouldn't regard it as swear words. On the other hand, pretending it would be 100% live would be unfair towards all bands who do 100% live, IMO.

No offense meant. Just trying to bring up a bit of honesty and understanding.

A propos understanding; what about the original intention of this post - shouldn't we get back to the topic helping them out; they're TB fellows, so let's not hijack their thread too much.

 

[Exploiter8]

I'm still trying to climb back onto my high horse.

 

[Robb Fesig]

It would seem @Marley's Ghost has forsaken us.

 

[craigie]

A few funny things to share from our afternoon gig today at the legion. All seniors, one younger couple.

I got there first and was setting a few things up and a lady came up and asked "where's the rest of the band?" I said he's on his way. She somehow thought there'd be a full band. I said "$150 doesn't even pay for two guy's time."

My buddy was exhausted and tapped the start/stop pedal and then restarted the track one beat later, so we had to drop a beat.


There's five songs we can't edit and you may be right he has to transpose +2 on the machine which he forgot for the first time ever. Once I got his attention he stopped the song and restarted. I made a joke about firing the drummer and getting a mechanical monkey drummer.

Most flubs ever due to exhaustion and not enough setup/soundcheck time, but it was a full hall and they were there to dance and loved it and I'm sure very few of the clams were that noticeable.

My buddy got in a car accident on the way home, so the pay is nowhere near to covering expenses. So I think of it as volunteering to give some fun to some seniors.

Long post but my point is the tradeoff of backing tracks is worth it in certain contexts.

 

[Groove Doctor]

The real issue is:- when will they start paying bands what they're actually worth, so we can afford a 5th/6th/11th band member?

 

[fhm555]

The real issue is:- when will they start paying bands what they're actually worth, so we can afford a 5th/6th/11th band member?

That's an easy one.

When the band is good enough to earn that kind of money.





Even big cover bands can get paid well if they are good enough

 

[Marley's Ghost]

Still here. Enjoying all the responses. The guy working on the tracks really does yeoman's work. My last band before this was a 6 piece and we fell apart not the least cause of scheduling conflicts. So there are def advantages to keeping it small.

 

[Steadfast]

uh no...because you're playing it

but if you're up there and half your band is on pre-recorded tracks, it's blurring the line between musicianship and live karaoke.

I'd rather only play songs that we can actually accomplish as musicians. that takes skill. setting off a track and playing along with it takes not much skill.

I agree mostly. My original band decided during its formation that if we can't perform live exactly as we recorded--we ditch it. NO CLICK or BACKING TRACKS.

However, I was a Worship Pastor at a small church that wanted to move into more contemporary worship and the available musicians sucked. I had to use backing tracks for certain instruments.

 

[Medford Bassman]

My two cents...
We use backing tracks for two songs, "don't Stop Believing" and "Uptown Funk". We're a 4 piece (guitar, bass, drums, vocalist). We perform mostly weddings and corporate events. I have yet had a customer or audience complain about "live karaoke".
It is true it takes practice and precision to play with a backing track and click. I find it has definitely sharpened my timing skills.

 

[hrodbert696]

I've been posting to defend the practice - if well done. I should point out, nevertheless, that I don't use them in a band myself and I'm not posting to advocate for tracks. From what I've seen it's an adequate solution in situations where it's impractical to have extra musicians covering a part and undesirable to leave the part out entirely. The magic of live performance is in live performance, that doesn't change, and it's important not to let the tracks interfere with or detract from the magic. But I don't think it's fair to some very talented and hard-working musicians to denigrate them for using tracks and ignoring the brilliant playing that they do.

 

[Steadfast]

I've been posting to defend the practice - if well done. I should point out, nevertheless, that I don't use them in a band myself and I'm not posting to advocate for tracks. From what I've seen it's an adequate solution in situations where it's impractical to have extra musicians covering a part and undesirable to leave the part out entirely. The magic of live performance is in live performance, that doesn't change, and it's important not to let the tracks interfere with or detract from the magic. But I don't think it's fair to some very talented and hard-working musicians to denigrate them for using tracks and ignoring the brilliant playing that they do.

Well said.

I had forgotten---but you jogged my memory---I created some quality backing tracks for me to play sax over in a coffee house gig because they didn't have a place for my band. I don't suck or lack musicianship as a sax player on practically any level of measure.

 

[morgansterne]

We have a couple cover bands in my area that use backing tracks, and they get some really big gigs. Breakfast Club, Disco Inferno -- I'd looove to get the kind of money per gig that they must be getting.
You can't control the wind, but you can adjust your sails.

 

[Michael Schreiber]

I have yet had a customer or audience complain about "live karaoke".

That's what I am wondering - "live karaoke" seems to be regarded as negative, here; I wonder why?
It's just a different thing. In Japan, it is very common that a singer sings along a backing track. It still takes skill and can be an awesome experience.

Thing is, they wouldn't insist calling it 100% live - that's the difference, IMHO; to call it what it is, not pretending sth. else.
A DJ also wouldn't call his DJ-ing a "live concert," to give a more extreme example. Still it might be a cool event.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

The KRB uses tracks on just a few songs. Just for grins and giggles, see if you can tell what's not being played live.






Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Michael Schreiber]

Hi,

The KRB uses tracks on just a few songs. Just for grins and giggles, see if you can tell what's not being played live.






Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

It's all playback? It is, right?

 

[Groove Doctor]

It is true it takes practice and precision to play with a backing track and click. I find it has definitely sharpened my timing skills.

It actually requires a large amount of precision and skill for an entire Band to perform well with a lot of backing tracks. Timing, song starts, correct cues, etc. Some musos can't even play in time with a click track. Singers are the worst culprits esp missing their cues.

But I don't think it's fair to some very talented and hard-working musicians to denigrate them for using tracks and ignoring the brilliant playing that they do.

Exactly. The gig scene has changed drastically over the years. Some people around here obviously never got the memo.

 

[craigie]

I just heard on radio Canada premiere how there were dance halls in every town in new Brunswick after WWII so many people could make their living as musicians. People there still love live music and it's amazing the musical heritage they have from such a small place. Technology has robbed us of the days of the full band, starting with sound systems loud enough to play recorded music for a dance, not just a jukebox. So we use it to our advantage but perpetuate the problem. What can we do though? People just don't want to pay for a full band. I figured the seniors dan would only need to charge $5 admission instead of $3 to pay our duo what we want but I'm sure most people would balk.

 

[hrodbert696]

I just heard on radio Canada premiere how there were dance halls in every town in new Brunswick after WWII so many people could make their living as musicians. People there still love live music and it's amazing the musical heritage they have from such a small place. Technology has robbed us of the days of the full band, starting with sound systems loud enough to play recorded music for a dance, not just a jukebox. So we use it to our advantage but perpetuate the problem. What can we do though? People just don't want to pay for a full band. I figured the seniors dan would only need to charge $5 admission instead of $3 to pay our duo what we want but I'm sure most people would balk.

There's a book on the music profession in England that traces employment of musicians from the 18th to mid-20th century; unfortunately it cuts off before the rise of rock and roll and modern pop music. Basically the biggest rise was in the early decades of the 20th century, peaking about the 1920s. The demand that drove that peak was silent movies, where thousands of cinemas needed pianists or organists to accompany the films. When the talkies came in, those jobs disappeared. The double-whammy was radio, which enabled a smaller number of more professional orchestras to play to larger audiences. Your local hometown band suddenly didn't sound as good.