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Bad Habits

#41
RedHatter said:
I can see what you mean. Wish I wasn't at work right now as I write this so that I could try this out.

What brought this all on, the realization, rather, was the other night over at a friend's house and he was playing guitar on Rocksmith. He knows that I've been playing bass for a few months so he asked if I wanted to play together - him on lead and me on bass. I figured it would be cool so I borrowed his brother's bass and we started in. It literally went something like this:

Played Young Lust - I got destroyed
Player Brick in the Wall (1 - 3) - I got destroyed
Played Pour Some Sugar on Me (arguably the easiest song in the game for bass) - I got destroyed

Talk about walking away in frustration. I was so flustered that after those three songs I just went home.
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Were you frustrated because you thought you sounded bad, or because the game told you you were terrible?

Rocksmith is only going to judge you on the timing and pitch of the notes you play, it doesn't care about your fingering or technique. It also doesn't really care if you sounded good or not just that you played what it wanted exactly when it wanted, so I wouldn't take it too seriously if you felt you did ok. Reading the notation will also take practice. If your timing was off on really easy songs you should probably be looking to improve that by learning more about rhythm. Stuff like this:
 
#42
Its been my experience that I've had to unlearn some of the things I was taught. I play mostly Funk, R&B, and Smooth Jazz and the bass Playing in these genres requires a lot of muting, pecolating, slap, and slick finger tricks where your left hand works more like a mitt. My first teacher was a classical guitarist so I had all the finger exercises out the ying yang and I studied out of the Simandl book which makes me a 1-2-4 man. Sometimes you can't maintain that pretty left hand and do the stuff necessary to play the Detroit (Jamerson) style for example. But for you, yes you need to start over with finger exercises and a strategy and method of approaching bass playing and have instructors to help get you through.
 
#43
Growlmonkee said:
Just a couple of thoughts...If I were your teacher, I would not allow you to play with one finger on your plucking hand, (some very good players play that way...but...) to start out you are better off establishing timing with your index, and middle finger, alternating. Does your teacher spend time with you on hand, wrist, body, finger positioning, (he should). You should have been given that 1-2-3-4 on each string exercise, by your second lesson, and should be doing scale exercises not long after. Have you even glanced at the circle of 5th's yet, with him? Are you learning the names of notes ..every note you play? With no mention of any theory whatsoever, ...your playing in the dark. A one hour lesson with a good teacher, once a month could give you plenty to work on for that month, when you're just starting out. No one needs a teacher to listen to a recording slowly, and figure out what notes are being played slowly, and be able, after some effort, to play an easy song you like. I'm not suggesting you quit your job, and go to a full time music school, but you should be getting more than you are describing from a 1 hour lesson, for your money, a good teacher could equip you with as much as most beginners could handle....and also ask them to please know it before your next lesson, because he does not wish to teach you the same things over and over.
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I wish that I had started correctly with the fretting and plucking hand but I did not. It began with this weird 'McCartney Claw' technique that I've since been using (and not caring for). My first session with this guy went something like this - he comes in and we talk for a minute since it was the first time we had met, he asks what kind of music I am into, and then he shows me (on the E string) 5-3-O-O and then writes it in my book. It was the beginning of Misty Mountain Hop by Zeppelin.

Glanced at the circle of 5th? I assume not since I have no idea what that is.
 
#44
Technicality said:
Were you frustrated because you thought you sounded bad, or because the game told you you were terrible?

Rocksmith is only going to judge you on the timing and pitch of the notes you play, it doesn't care about your fingering or technique. It also doesn't really care if you sounded good or not just that you played what it wanted exactly when it wanted, so I wouldn't take it too seriously if you felt you did ok. Reading the notation will also take practice. If your timing was off on really easy songs you should probably be looking to improve that by learning more about rhythm. Stuff like this:
Click to expand...

I only brought up Rocksmith because that was the moment of self-realization for me. To answer your question, though, yes to both - I thought that I sounded bad (and I did), and the game told me that I was terrible. Reason for this was my technique. Notes were all over the place and even slowing the songs down I had a very difficult time keeping up. It was then that I realized (although I have had suspicions for some time now) what was going on.
 
#45
In all fairness McCartney already had very trained fingers, before he ever picked up a bass, and most of his technique was at an advanced stage, early on. A lot of what he does can be developed in time, his right hand was "a monster", from the beginning, and his left hand played bass parts, with great timing on piano first.
 
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#47
RedHatter said:
You are correct. I've come to realize that there is so much more than just learning songs and that I want all of it.

Fact of the matter is this - I don't want to play in a band. I don't want to play out for money. I just want a good, fundamental knowledge of the instrument in order to sit back and play. Bad day at work? Kids driving me crazy? Go in the other room and play to soothe the soul. That's what I am looking for.
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Do you have Skype? I'm not a teacher by any means, but I do think I have a good knowledge on safe techniques (keeping wrists straight, where to your place your thumbs, etc).

I honestly wouldn't mind skyping with you for an hour or so just to show you a few things so you can at least play comfortably until you find a good teacher who can really teach you what you need to learn musically.

No charge at all.

PM me if you're interested and we'll schedule something out.
 
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#48
Check out this clip, and incorporate the exercises into your practice routine for about five to ten minutes each session. Continue doing it for as long as it takes to become second nature. If you try to rush things you will end up back tracking and it will take longer in the end.

 
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#49
I started in 1997. I bought a five string bass, an amp and a Bunny Brunel book. After using that for six months, I took lessons for six months. The book was HUGE, but the lessons sealed the deal, for now I am the best bass player on the planet*.

I'm shocked that your instructor let you do the two finger thing on your fretting hand. The very first thing I learned was hand position. I was taught by the level one book how to use hand position.

*According to my wife.
 
#51
Paul Mc just goes to show what I argued way back on the first page: he has "bad habits" in his technique, but he obviously has a deep love of music and started learning lots of songs from the beginning. Early Beatles played lots of cover songs.

You can correct bad habits down the road, but you can't teach how to "feel" music if that desire was not there from the start. It's amazing to me the number of musicians who consider themselves "intermediate bassists," but can't play easy songs like "Happy Birthday."
 
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#52
Robroy said:
I started in 1997. I bought a five string bass, an amp and a Bunny Brunel book. After using that for six months, I took lessons for six months. The book was HUGE, but the lessons sealed the deal, for now I am the best bass player on the planet*.

I'm shocked that your instructor let you do the two finger thing on your fretting hand. The very first thing I learned was hand position. I was taught by the level one book how to use hand position.


BTW, on a side note, I was so impressed with the impact of the Bunny Brunel book that on one of my trips to LA I dropped by the Carvin store and thanked him personally. We had a great conversation.

*According to my wife.
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#53
it seems you are having a hard time with your lessons and what I am going to tell you won't make it any easier. now you have bad habits, the need of a good instructor is really necessary. I won't recommend any youtube lessons. specially at the very beginning a good teacher is needed to show you how to put your hands on the instrument, not only for technique, but even for health issues. someone with proper technique that can watch you play and correct you is really important.
I agree with the ones that advise you to change your teacher, and to take less lessons but of better quality. I have had alumni like you, with your initial requests and some things I can do, others I don't I try to bring them to the right path. but technique is something I never discuss, because you can have your muscles injuried easily.
again, find a good teacher that teaches you good and keep you motivated. you don't need to be a virtuoso to have the joy of playing, but some stupid little things can ruin it surprisingly easy.
 
#55
RedHatter said:
I realize now, after six months later of playing,
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Six months is a very short time to be playing, and IMO too short for any "bad" habits to become so ingrained that they would take a long time to break. At six months, everything is new to the hands/fingers..and brain, and they are ready to take on new challenges.

So relax, work on the exercises and advice given here, take your time and enjoy the learning process.
 
#57
fearceol said:
Six months is a very short time to be playing, and IMO too short for any "bad" habits to become so ingrained that they would take a long time to break. At six months, everything is new to the hands/fingers..and brain, and they are ready to take on new challenges.

So relax, work on the exercises and advice given here, take your time and enjoy the learning process.
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I'm glad that you wrote this as it was a question I had meant to ask earlier in this thread. Indeed I intend to take the advice given here as well as practice, practice, practice the 'correct' way of doing things.
 
#58
RedHatter said:
I wasn't going to say anything about this but the above quoted makes me think that it needs to be said.

About two weeks ago I was getting very frustrated and so I told my instructor as much. His reply was (almost verbatim here, folks):

"Well in the beginning you told me that you only wanted to learn songs, so you pretty much backed me into a corner from the very beginning."

I can't help but think at this point that this guy has just been taking my money and putting in next to no effort when it comes to actually 'teaching'. In fairness, I have a small notebook that each week he leaves me with things to practice (pieces of songs and/or scales) but as of late I am beginning to wonder why I'm even paying this guy.
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I think it was Jeff Berlin who said to find teachers who have something to teach you, not one's who dictate lessons at your will. I'm butchering the quote but it was along those lines. This stuck with me so I always have something to teach my students before I field any questions they might want to look at.
 
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