Bad Habits

[hintz]

You probably need to adjust your playing posture and also make sure you have your bass in a proper playing position. Try to make sure both your wrists are not sharply bent while you are playing.

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IMO this is the single most important thing to get right. If you're getting pain in either wrist, this is probably why. The first step is to find the right combination of strap length, neck angle, and arm positions to ensure that both wrists remain as straight as possible. Playing with a bent wrist not only reduces your finger dexterity, but is likely to lead to injury.

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I was taught to always wear a strap so that the bass is the same height and position, whether I am standing or sitting.

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Keep in mind that with bent wrists you are slowing blood flow to you hands/fingers, and having your bass *too high* can cause this as much(if not more) than having it "too low"!!

I suggest finding a good middle ground, I have mine sitting so my plucking hand is belly button height!! Too low might be comfy for your plucking hand but restricts your fretting, too high and you have easy access to higher frets but your fretting hand will be at an unnatural angle *and* you'll be more likely to bend your wrists in an unhealthy way!!

Take a look at Stanley Clarke nowadays compared to the early 70's, he actually lowered his strap some over time! Another thing is you don't have to do the one finger per fret thing down low, but definitely get your pinky involved(upright bass 101, useful for electric), instead work the finger per fret thing up past the 3rd or even 5th fret(unless you have long fingers), no point in injuries early on!!

 

[socialleper]

Plucking hand:
Grab a metronome and just start working the open strings. Just get used to 1-2-1-2-1-2 on the beat, then if you think you can handle it, start hitting the 'ands' as well.

Fretting hand:
This is a little tricky because rolling through a chromatic scale over and over will hurt for a while. To give me a little of a break I do a C major scale through all the modes. So:
A Frets 3 -5; fingers 2-4
D Frets 2-3-5; fingers 1-2-4
G Frets 2-4-5; fingers 1-3-4
Then
A Frets 5-7-8; fingers 1-3-4
D Frets 5-7; fingers 2-4
G Frets 4-5-7; fingers 1-2-4

etc.

If you want to be hardcore about it, an ascending chromatic scale using one finger per fret will do it
E: 1-2-3-4
A: 2-3-4-5
D 3-4-5-6
G 4-5-6-7

 

[Billybladez66]

I am curious - why do you consider the time you spent sitting down practicing as wasted?

If you progress and continue learning songs eventually you wind up in a jam and/or band. I can almost guarantee you won't be sitting down for either. It was way easier for me to learn standing up. Once I reached a certain level of proficiency then I had no problem sitting or standing, my body was already accustomed to playing standing up. But if your muscle memory only knows the positions from sitting down you may have some difficulty executing passages below the 5th fret when standing for not having done so at any length. You can always adjust your strap til you find the sweet spot for wrist angles of both hands. As you get better you may decide to raise or lower your bass, but by then you will already be proficient at playing so it will be a strictly comfort/appearance thing.

 

[Lobster11]

I suggest finding a good middle ground, I have mine sitting so my plucking hand is belly button height!! Too low might be comfy for your plucking hand but restricts your fretting, too high and you have easy access to higher frets but your fretting hand will be at an unnatural angle *and* you'll be more likely to bend your wrists in an unhealthy way!!

Another factor is the angle of the neck. I usually have my tilted upwards at about 30- to 45-degree angle, which allows me to have my plucking-hand position a bit lower than you described -- more or less sitting over my hip-bone -- while still having the end of the neck within easy reach.

 

[lfmn16]

Hey guys, I'm new here so I apologize if this isn't in the correct place.

That said, here's where I am now...

I decided that I wanted to play bass because, well, seems like everyone plays guitar. I went out and bought a 4-string bass and amp and immediately realized that I didn't know what to do next. After spending days of searching the internet looking for what to do next and becoming extremely frustrated I figured that the best way to begin this journey would be to hire an instructor.

After speaking over the phone to a couple of instructors in my area I found one that seemed to click with what I was interested in playing (Classic Rock and Blues) so I hired him. That was around six months ago. During our first session I remember telling him that I wasn't interested in learning scales and whatnot but that I just wanted to learn songs.

I realize now, after six months later of playing, how ignorant that was - in my defense, I really didn't understand how important scales and theory are to bass (and any other instrument). So... for the last six months I've just been learning songs and pieces of songs at a snails pace. I've come to realize that I don't want to be one of those guys you see at a Guitar Center who don't really know how to play their instrument but that only know a dozen or so songs or pieces of songs very well (think the whole 'No Stairway to Heaven' from Wayne's World).

My instructor has just let me get away with using only one finger for my plucking hand and only the index and middle finger for my fretting hand. I didn't fully comprehend until recently how important it was to use at least two fingers for plucking and all four fingers for fretting notes. Now, unfortunately, I have the bad habit of constantly falling back into using the first two fingers of my fretting hand.

My question I suppose is - how do I begin to retrain myself to use all four fingers of the fretting hand and two fingers of my plucking hand? I know that it's all about practice, but I am looking for (hoping for) something a bit more specific. Scales? Practicing using 4/2 fingers with the songs/pieces that I know?

Any help is greatly appreciate as I am really struggling with this.

Just my opinion, but an instructor that lets you half-@$$ your way through isn't worth having.

Get a good instructor, because the one you have now sucks. Our instructors aren't being paid to be our friends, they are being paid to teach us how to play the bass. You can learn songs for free from tab on the internet.

 

[Ethan117]

My favorite song to play when I first started out was Fire by Jimi Hendrix. Teaches you how to use four fretting fingers very well.

 

[CatSquare]

I am curious - why do you consider the time you spent sitting down practicing as wasted?

Well, wasted is probably too strong. Of course all the knowledge and theory don't change between sitting down and standing up, but the physical aspect of playing sitting down vs standing up is completely different, at least the way I wear my bass it is. I sling mine a bit low, having to do with where i like my plucking hand to hang - my fretting hand had no muscle memory of playing lower when all my practice time was spent playing sitting down. I guess if you wear your bass up high when you're standing, it may not be as rough a transition though

 

[RedHatter]

Well, wasted is probably too strong. Of course all the knowledge and theory don't change between sitting down and standing up, but the physical aspect of playing sitting down vs standing up is completely different, at least the way I wear my bass it is. I sling mine a bit low, having to do with where i like my plucking hand to hang - my fretting hand had no muscle memory of playing lower when all my practice time was spent playing sitting down. I guess if you wear your bass up high when you're standing, it may not be as rough a transition though

When I've been alone practicing and have played standing up it feels like a completely different world. I have an Ibanez 700 and the weight isn't nearly as noticeable in a sitting position as it is standing. Last time I played standing I had to sit back down after thirty minutes.

 

[Billybladez66]

When I've been alone practicing and have played standing up it feels like a completely different world. I have an Ibanez 700 and the weight isn't nearly as noticeable in a sitting position as it is standing. Last time I played standing I had to sit back down after thirty minutes.

That's OK...enough time comes and then your in a band and then its 3 one hour sets.....you'll get used to it...

 

[Murdoc_420]

My current instructor comes to my house each Sunday for an hour lesson for the price of $20, very less in price than any of the others that I have looked into. Unfortunately I cannot afford (again, real life sadly) the rates of other instructors and I am a little leery about online bass lessons. I checked out Scottsbasslessons.com for the free trial, but other than watching a couple of videos I didn't get very in-depth with it.

Any thoughts on this?

Scottsbasslesson has a lot of great free stuff on youtube as does talkingbass.net (not to be confused with this site). Look for the basic stuff, I don't think either are categorized well.

Also, have you brought up with your instructor that you feel you got off on the wrong foot by requesting to skip the basics and would like to start over with that?

Sure, you don't need to dive into 4 year study on music theory, but knowing scales, what a major chord is, etc... will help a lot, and from there you can build songs, or be able to tell what chords songs are in,etc... And that will help you play songs, recover from mistakes during songs and all that. It also helps a lot to train your left hand to move around the fret board and which fingers are best where.

One good exercise is just to practice playing index/middle/index/middle, one string, across strings (is where it gets tricky) and in different rythyms. You don't HAVE to play like that but practicing it helps it set it in and you can play more confidently later.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Well, wasted is probably too strong. Of course all the knowledge and theory don't change between sitting down and standing up, but the physical aspect of playing sitting down vs standing up is completely different, at least the way I wear my bass it is. I sling mine a bit low, having to do with where i like my plucking hand to hang - my fretting hand had no muscle memory of playing lower when all my practice time was spent playing sitting down. I guess if you wear your bass up high when you're standing, it may not be as rough a transition though

When I've been alone practicing and have played standing up it feels like a completely different world. I have an Ibanez 700 and the weight isn't nearly as noticeable in a sitting position as it is standing. Last time I played standing I had to sit back down after thirty minutes.

Your bass should sit in the same position when seated or standing. If you want to sling it low to look cool, i.e. Rex Brown or Mike Inez, you will impede your playing ability, particularly as you climb the neck. You will, however, look way cooler with it slung low. Regardless, you should practice both sitting and standing at some point. I wouldn't suggest the latter until you are comfortable and getting ready for a band though, it is just to make you comfortable with it.

 

[DaDrew2112]

My instructor has just let me get away with using only one finger for my plucking hand and only the index and middle finger for my fretting hand. I didn't fully comprehend until recently how important it was to use at least two fingers for plucking and all four fingers for fretting notes. Now, unfortunately, I have the bad habit of constantly falling back into using the first two fingers of my fretting hand.

My question I suppose is - how do I begin to retrain myself to use all four fingers of the fretting hand and two fingers of my plucking hand? I know that it's all about practice, but I am looking for (hoping for) something a bit more specific. Scales? Practicing using 4/2 fingers with the songs/pieces that I know?

Any help is greatly appreciate as I am really struggling with this.

I rarely use my pinky tbh this is bass and the pinky is a weak finger so I avoid it mostly. But that's just me. I think double bass players won't use one finger either i can't remember which.

It holds me back a little bit i guess.

But just like I had to force myself and still am in the process of learning to pick. You do it slow, consistently to a metronome till you have it where you want it. If you work on the right you'll be able to do more, more quickly. The left ehh....just sort of changes with every song/scale/exercise

 

[DaDrew2112]

Your bass should sit in the same position when seated or standing. If you want to sling it low to look cool, i.e. Rex Brown or Mike Inez, you will impede your playing ability, particularly as you climb the neck. You will, however, look way cooler with it slung low. Regardless, you should practice both sitting and standing at some point. I wouldn't suggest the latter until you are comfortable and getting ready for a band though, it is just to make you comfortable with it.

coolness is a real factor though if you're playing rock music. I just tip my bass up if i'm high on the neck. And I prefer to play standing. but my bass is in just the right spot for me when I'm standing.

This site could benefit from some post-merge technology lol

 

[RedHatter]

I've set the strap up to a position where it sits exactly (or as close as I can get it) standing as well as sitting. Honestly, I prefer the bass to sit a little higher. Quite frankly I'm old enough that I couldn't care less how 'cool' it looks (haha!) but rather, for comfort and ease of access.

I spoke to my instructor today and let him know how I am feeling - I was ready to give him the boot over the phone. I was a bit taken aback when I began telling him the things that I wasn't comfortable with about his instructions when he interrupted me to say that he too wasn't comfortable about how things were going. He said that he felt as though he was short changing me on the lessons and that if I wasn't ready to really 'learn' things the correct way that I should probably find someone else. Long story short, he agreed with everything I had to say and we've agreed to start all over as if I haven't had a single lesson. This coming Sunday in my next lesson with him and we're going to begin with fretting/plucking form and the other things we've been talking about in this thread. I am hopeful that since we've got this situation out in the open that things will change. The way that I figure it, $20 is worth the second chance to see how things will go in our next lesson.

I'll let you guys know what happens Sunday. Also, I really appreciate the support of the community with this - it's something that I have been struggling with for some time now.

 

[ONYX]

Also, I really appreciate the support of the community with this - it's something that I have been struggling with for some time now.

That's because we're bass players, the intellectual and social elite of the music world. If this had been a guitar forum, you would have been torn to shreds in the most barbaric fashion.

Good to see that things will hopefully improve for you---good luck!

 

[Lobster11]

I've set the strap up to a position where it sits exactly (or as close as I can get it) standing as well as sitting. Honestly, I prefer the bass to sit a little higher. Quite frankly I'm old enough that I couldn't care less how 'cool' it looks (haha!) but rather, for comfort and ease of access.

I spoke to my instructor today and let him know how I am feeling - I was ready to give him the boot over the phone. I was a bit taken aback when I began telling him the things that I wasn't comfortable with about his instructions when he interrupted me to say that he too wasn't comfortable about how things were going. He said that he felt as though he was short changing me on the lessons and that if I wasn't ready to really 'learn' things the correct way that I should probably find someone else. Long story short, he agreed with everything I had to say and we've agreed to start all over as if I haven't had a single lesson. This coming Sunday in my next lesson with him and we're going to begin with fretting/plucking form and the other things we've been talking about in this thread. I am hopeful that since we've got this situation out in the open that things will change. The way that I figure it, $20 is worth the second chance to see how things will go in our next lesson.

I'll let you guys know what happens Sunday. Also, I really appreciate the support of the community with this - it's something that I have been struggling with for some time now.

That sounds great! Neither of you was satisfied, but both of you know exactly why, so give it another try starting from scratch. For 20 bucks an hour -- and given the lack of alternatives you seem to have -- I'd say it's worth trying. Please do let us know how it goes!

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

I've set the strap up to a position where it sits exactly (or as close as I can get it) standing as well as sitting. Honestly, I prefer the bass to sit a little higher. Quite frankly I'm old enough that I couldn't care less how 'cool' it looks (haha!) but rather, for comfort and ease of access.

I spoke to my instructor today and let him know how I am feeling - I was ready to give him the boot over the phone. I was a bit taken aback when I began telling him the things that I wasn't comfortable with about his instructions when he interrupted me to say that he too wasn't comfortable about how things were going. He said that he felt as though he was short changing me on the lessons and that if I wasn't ready to really 'learn' things the correct way that I should probably find someone else. Long story short, he agreed with everything I had to say and we've agreed to start all over as if I haven't had a single lesson. This coming Sunday in my next lesson with him and we're going to begin with fretting/plucking form and the other things we've been talking about in this thread. I am hopeful that since we've got this situation out in the open that things will change. The way that I figure it, $20 is worth the second chance to see how things will go in our next lesson.

I'll let you guys know what happens Sunday. Also, I really appreciate the support of the community with this - it's something that I have been struggling with for some time now.

Awesome, let's hope he picks up his game.

Just some suggestions so you can steer the lessons in the right direction.

First, have him teach you basic technique. You want to learn 1-2-4 fingering or one finger per fret, either or is acceptable. You will also want to work on plucking technique, you want to ensure you are not striking the strings down when playing. Also ensure you know the chromatic scale and how a bass works in the first lesson or two.

Next up you want to study basic chord structure, just major and minor not augmented and diminished. After learning basic chords move into scales, again, you just want to start with major and minor. Then you will want to get into intervals, the building blocks of music. If you find yourself in the modes before this you have found yourself a guitar player teaching bass.

You will also want to ensure your instructor can teach you voice leading down the line, ensure they are familiar with this concept. You will get a better teacher assuredly.

Tossed in with the above you will want a decent rhythm education. Know how to count and keep the beat. You should also learn how to count odd rhythms and meters but don't stress that now.

If your end goal is to learn double tapping or pop and slap techniques ensure the teacher can show them to you but do not touch on any of that fancy stuff for at least 6 months. Focus on the foundations and you'll be a better player.

And, I cannot stress this enough, do not forget that learning happens between lessons. The lessons are only to show you new material and provide feedback or direction, the learning takes place on your time. Too many students expect me to just give them a magic scale to play awesome, it doesn't work like that. You need to learn how to put ideas in your own practice.

Lastly, if you were my student I wouldn't force reading on you since you're an adult. If you are under 18 I force reading on my students. It is a very useful skill but it is most important in higher educational material. If you want to be great it will be almost essential short of you being a one in a million talent. I would highly recommend being able to read a chord sheet (also called a fake sheet or a head) as it will be extremely useful to a working player, unlike reading staff.

Communication is essential, as you have just found out. Always tell your teacher of your concerns.

I hope that helps.

 

[edencab]

I was taught to always wear a strap so that the bass is the same height and position, whether I am standing or sitting.

and so you don't drop it , accidents are a guarantee in life

 

[RedHatter]

Awesome, let's hope he picks up his game.

Just some suggestions so you can steer the lessons in the right direction.

First, have him teach you basic technique. You want to learn 1-2-4 fingering or one finger per fret, either or is acceptable. You will also want to work on plucking technique, you want to ensure you are not striking the strings down when playing. Also ensure you know the chromatic scale and how a bass works in the first lesson or two.

Next up you want to study basic chord structure, just major and minor not augmented and diminished. After learning basic chords move into scales, again, you just want to start with major and minor. Then you will want to get into intervals, the building blocks of music. If you find yourself in the modes before this you have found yourself a guitar player teaching bass.

You will also want to ensure your instructor can teach you voice leading down the line, ensure they are familiar with this concept. You will get a better teacher assuredly.

Tossed in with the above you will want a decent rhythm education. Know how to count and keep the beat. You should also learn how to count odd rhythms and meters but don't stress that now.

If your end goal is to learn double tapping or pop and slap techniques ensure the teacher can show them to you but do not touch on any of that fancy stuff for at least 6 months. Focus on the foundations and you'll be a better player.

And, I cannot stress this enough, do not forget that learning happens between lessons. The lessons are only to show you new material and provide feedback or direction, the learning takes place on your time. Too many students expect me to just give them a magic scale to play awesome, it doesn't work like that. You need to learn how to put ideas in your own practice.

Lastly, if you were my student I wouldn't force reading on you since you're an adult. If you are under 18 I force reading on my students. It is a very useful skill but it is most important in higher educational material. If you want to be great it will be almost essential short of you being a one in a million talent. I would highly recommend being able to read a chord sheet (also called a fake sheet or a head) as it will be extremely useful to a working player, unlike reading staff.

Communication is essential, as you have just found out. Always tell your teacher of your concerns.

I hope that helps.

Good Lord, I don't even know where to begin. This is exactly what I was looking for. It's a shame that you aren't closer to me as it appears that you're a great mentor. Thank you very much for this, the wisdom you've shared here is invaluable.

Couple comments if you don't mind:

I am all about the OFPF, that is what I intend to focus on to begin with since what I am doing now is completely wrong.

Cord structure has been discussed and he has written several scales in my notebook which I have practiced (but probably not nearly enough). They can be tedious, but I understand their importance.

Voice leading? I am unfamiliar with this term. Forgive my ignorance, but is this singing? I can sing, or have been told that I can carry a tune nicely but am uncomfortable singing in front of others. I like to sing Skynard, J. Cash, and the like.

I'd like to slap, but I realize that is down the road and am in no hurry.

At first I thought that the magic happened during lessons but I quickly realized that you're correct and that lessons should be for feedback and new instruction.

I can read tabs now, but not music. I intend to learn to read music at some point just because, but honestly it isn't a high priority at the moment as my time is very limited due to real life obligations.

Again, I seriously appreciate the time you've taken to lay this out for me.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

First of, I'm glad to help. Pay it forward and all that jazz. We all had to start somewhere. And thank you for the kind words, I appreciate it.

One way I learned the fretboard was actually writing it out on paper. Mind you, I was failing high school so I had lots of free time on my hands when I learned bass. I probably should have added that in the previous post. Know where frets work as well as little reference points to move quicker on it are major helps. One trick, for example, is that the 5th fret is always the note of string above and the 7th is the string below while everything after the 12th repeats.

Chord structures are built from scales but I would have your teacher focus on chord tones (the structure that makes chords). A major chord, for example, is always a root-third-fifth combo. I go with Wooten's method which is taken from language experience. You do not learn letters first, you learn words. Know the pieces of a major chord is not as important as knowing a major chord when you hear it. If you have a piano or guitar they work nicely to voice chords, you can get familiar with just hearing a major chord.

Voice leading involves resolving a note of one chord into the next. It has nothing to do with singing. Mind you, a bass player who cannot sing is not commercially viable in the real world. I highly recommend singing lessons. Anyway, don't stress voice leading now as it will just confuse and frustrate you. Voice leading is a somewhat advanced concept. If the instructor knows it they are well qualified. It is also an extremely useful skill to have in your bag.

Voice leading - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TABs are good for learning songs but try to not use them as a crutch in the long run. I totally get real life taking priority over learning to read music, I can relate to that. I used TABs plenty when starting, learning songs can show you how the pros do it and having TABs makes it possible to play along as a newbie. One thing my first teacher always stressed was to try learning a song by ear first. Once you get the basics down and learn your intervals learning songs by ear will become considerably easier, don't stress too hard on your ear for now but do keep working on it. For what it's worth, plenty of players learn how to read long after they can play. It is far more difficult because you feel above it at that point but that is what I did. My reading is not my strong point by far, I use it primarily for education and not for learning pieces though.