Bad idea for a custom?

[Jared Lash]

I am sitting here with the first bass I ever owned resting in my lap: a 1978 (I think) Guild B-301 which my mom bought for me 15 years ago when I first started out on the instrument.

It was pretty worn out then and is virtually unusable now (frets completely worn down, several dead spots, poorly shielded) but it is still an absolute joy to play around with.

Even after graduating to "bigger and better" basses, I still absolutely love the feel of this thing. I gave it to my younger brother years and years ago and coming back to it now I'm almost shocked at how good it feels in my hands.

The last few days I've been seriously considering getting a custom bass built as a modern incarnation of this old Guild. There would have to be some improvements made - better balance for one, this sucker has major neck dive issues and different pickups but I love the shape and feel of this bass immensely.

Am I crazy to want to recreate this 70's bass?

If not, who would be a good luthier for such a project? My first thought (based on what I've seen of his work and the rave reviews he gets here at TB) was Chris Stambaugh.

Oh, and for those unfamiliar with this relic, here's a couple pictures of B302s. 301's (like mine) had one pickup and the 302's had two, otherwise they are identical.

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Other than the dual pickups, this bass is exactly like mine, though on a custom bass I'd want a natural wood look with possibly an exotic top (cocobolo maybe?) to give it a more modern look.

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If I do go down this road, should I leave the pickguard as is, modify the design or just forego it altogether?

 

[scottyd]

One thing to consider in getting one built would be that alot of the neck dive associated with this bass has to do with the short upper horn. A pretty solid rule of thumb is that the top horn as close to the 12th fret as possible will make for the best balance. SO either a longer top horn or the neck set deeper.

 

[bassteban]

I love the looks of those basses, & I think it's very cool that you still have your first. I imagine Chris S. could do a fabulous job on a semi-modern rendition. I would keep the pickguard design & make it out of some crazy figured wood. Can we see pics of you hammered #1?

 

[Munjibunga]

No pickguard. For a builder, I'd get either Pushic, Bebensee, or Wishnevsky to do it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

No pickguard. For a builder, I'd get either Pushic, Bebensee, or Wishnevsky to do it.

That was mean.

 

[SnakeAnthony]

No pickguard. For a builder, I'd get either Pushic, Bebensee, or Wishnevsky to do it.

 

[bassteban]

Whatsamatter, munji? Bumpus hounds destroy your turkey?

 

[Jared Lash]

scottyd,

Thanks for the advice. I'd hope the luthier could maintain the body shape as closely as possible while creating better balance so I'd be OK with a deeper set neck. But if the upper horn had to be made longer I could live with it.

bassteban,

I'll have to charge up my digital camera but I'll try and post a pic or two of my old 301 tomorrow.

No pickguard. For a builder, I'd get either Pushic, Bebensee, or Wishnevsky to do it.

I see. Thank you for the suggestions-they seem to be well intentioned and not the least bit sarcastic.

To answer the question you posited in your thread, I never really thought about buying a custom instrument before the last couple days.

You're right, there ARE fantastic production line basses and "near" custom instruments and I own a couple of each (an American Jazz and two Carvins along with a Takamine acoustic) and have GAS for a couple others (namely a Ray and a Ric).

But what I've REALLY gotten a bug for is an instrument that isn't made anymore and which wasn't a big enough seller in its own time to provide for well maintained used models.

I've scoured the net for old B301s and B302s to little avail. They are generally in pretty bad shape and as mentioned above, there are some obvious flaws with this instrument which I've overlooked because of its mojo and playability. So why not have somebody build me an improved version of the bass I loved?

Seems like a good idea to me. Then again, as a homebrewer, I have had several people ask me, "why would you want to spend all day making your own beer when you could just go down to the grocery store and buy some?". . .

 

[Spacelordmother]

I would think the solution would be to spend that money towards fixing the original bass. i'm sure you could find a luthier who could make some improvements and restore it to a playable condition. there are too many variables when it comes to instruments - you could have 2 "identical" basses and they could feel so very different. I would put the time and effort into restoring a bass you know and love.

 

[Lokire]

Whatsamatter, munji? Bumpus hounds destroy your turkey?

I think so....quit trying to bring the rest of us down with you, mister anti-custom.

 

[Jared Lash]

I would think the solution would be to spend that money towards fixing the original bass. i'm sure you could find a luthier who could make some improvements and restore it to a playable condition. there are too many variables when it comes to instruments - you could have 2 "identical" basses and they could feel so very different. I would put the time and effort into restoring a bass you know and love.

I've considered doing just that but it isn't feasible at this point. Most importantly, the neck is warped. Twisted might be a better word as no matter how the truss rod is adjusted, there will either be minor buzzing on the D & G strings or minor buzzing on the E & A strings.

Not only that, but it needs a complete refretting (or defretting as I considered) and has some feedback problems (typical of this bass). Plus, if I WAS to spend the kind of money to fix this bass up, I'd feel it necessary to fix the aesthetic problems (lotsa dings and scratches) too.

I appreciate the idea and I wish I could make it happen, but this bass has had its day. I'll be on the lookout for good condition B301s & B302s but I think to get what I want, I may need to go the custom route.

 

[bassteban]

'Listen to your heart, Pedro. That's what I did..'
I dunno, munjibunga is usually much more entertaining. I don't know why he's lashing out like this...:scowl: I have seen basses like yours on the bay here & there, so it does happen. I wonder if a fret job could fix the playability, though. if the frets themselves were well-levelled regardless of the actual fretboard's surface, I'd think it should improve things big-time. But honestly, I think Chris Stambaugh could really do something amazing w/this idea. Marcus Willett(TB username marcuswillett, ironically enough)had him do a slightly-tweaked Jazz-style. Nothing crazy, but I'm sure it suits him perfectly. Why custom? If you don't know I probably can't explain...

 

[Fealach]

I knew someone that had a 302, bought new when he was in school, for a first bass. Eventually it got worn out and broken down like yours. He bought a Carvin neck through neck, cut off the body wings and glued them on the Carvin neck. The homemade routing wasn't beautiful, but the pickguard covered it. He stripped the chipped black paint down to the mahogany underneath, put a clear finish on it, and now it's a seriously cool looking bass. Moving the rear strap button up helped the neck dive.

Not as cool as a custom, but cheaper.

 

[Espidog]

Am I crazy to want to recreate this 70's bass?

By no means! A lovely instrument, despite the short top horn/neck-dive problem. I had exactly the same model as you - a black 1978 B301 - and I loved it to bits. Gorgeous, resonant thing, it was. Used to chime like a grand piano. I'd still have it now if some b*****d burglar hadn't nicked it, along with all my other gear, back in 1989.

I agree, though, that a completely new custom instrument will probably sound different, on account of the woods being used etc. Nevertheless, it's a great idea. If a that kooky B301 body shape feels right for you, go for it. Just make sure the top horn is long enough this time!

 

[Jared Lash]

OK, now I'm really starting to consider this seriously.

A few questions:

Does anyone know if Stambaugh does set-necks? I've always thought it was a big part of the sound of this bass.

My original bass is mahogany. What other woods give a similar tone? Not that I have anything against using mahogany, but I thought I'd try to increase the growl that the original had.

Any ideas on pickups? I liked the original tone of this bass - aggressive but vintage, but I'm not sure who made the pickups. Again, I'd like to keep the vintage tone, but with a little more clarity on the low E and a bit more growl.

It's a weird combination, but I'm thinking John Paul Jones meets Billy Gould. Or maybe the Ox is a better example.

 

[Jazz Ad]

The shape looks like something Bud Lecompte could make unique.
I think it's a good idea.

 

[Munjibunga]

What's with all you bitter, dour and humorless folks? If they guy has more than 25 posts, he'll know I'm joking. Seriously, I like Spacelordmother's idea of having someone refurbish the one you have. If it needs a new neck, one could be built. There are luthiers out there who could pull it off.

 

[A9X]

Am I crazy to want to recreate this 70's bass?

No, go for it. But if you go for an exotic top, ditch the PG.

 

[Jared Lash]

What's with all you bitter, dour and humorless folks? If they guy has more than 25 posts, he'll know I'm joking. Seriously, I like Spacelordmother's idea of having someone refurbish the one you have. If it needs a new neck, one could be built. There are luthiers out there who could pull it off.

No harm, no foul Munjibunga. I've been around enough (and read enough on the builders you mentioned) to know that you were kidding.

The cost to fix this bass would be prohibitive for many reasons, not the least of which is that it's a set neck. I've decided on one course of action for sure. The next well preserved B301 or B302 I see in a shop or online I'm going to buy. The few I've seen always go for less than $700.

But I've really taken to the idea of having a luthier "modernize" this design. So I think maybe I'll do that too.

Dharmabass,

I have been thinking and sketching periodically today, and I think if I do this I'll either go with a figured top and no pickguard or a fairly simple top with a nice wooden pickguard.

 

[Wademeister63]

I knew someone that had a 302, bought new when he was in school, for a first bass. Eventually it got worn out and broken down like yours. He bought a Carvin neck through neck, cut off the body wings and glued them on the Carvin neck. The homemade routing wasn't beautiful, but the pickguard covered it. He stripped the chipped black paint down to the mahogany underneath, put a clear finish on it, and now it's a seriously cool looking bass. Moving the rear strap button up helped the neck dive.

Not as cool as a custom, but cheaper.

This sounds like really not a bad idea. Notice there is some room left between the bridge and the end of the body so the wings could be installed a bit closer to the nut. Looks like you could get the strap button pretty close to the 13th fret which should be a great help with the balance. Route the existing pickup cavity to a nice rectangular shape and fill it with a wood block before removing the wings from the original neck and you'll have solid wood for your new pickup route(s). I don't know if you could pull it off, but the original headstock might possibly be grafted to the new neck. If you could get to that point, it seems like you'd have what you want and very very few people would ever notice it's not stock.

Sounds to me like it's right up Hambone's alley...

+1 to a cool project!