Bad News: LMII is closing down.....

[tjclem]

That would be interesting. I used to order mine 26.25" long so they would end under the nut not in the thin area of the neck

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Okay, I think I'll do that. I'll do a quick project here to develop a basic DADR style truss rod that any of you could build for yourselves. Using mail-order materials, a couple of hand tools, a good bench vise, and a drill press.

The main design parameter is that it is mechanically strong and very easy to install. It drops into a straight slot. The design would be easily adjustable to different lengths and depths. It should cost less than $10 in materials and take under an hour to make, once you've got the hang of it.

I'll write it up as a separate thread, showing all the steps and explaining the design principles. I'll probably refer to my Metalworking thread quite a bit.

 

[Lo-E]

Okay, I think I'll do that. I'll do a quick project here to develop a basic DADR style truss rod that any of you could build for yourselves. Using mail-order materials, a couple of hand tools, a good bench vise, and a drill press.

The main design parameter is that it is mechanically strong and very easy to install. It drops into a straight slot. The design would be easily adjustable to different lengths and depths. It should cost less than $10 in materials and take under an hour to make, once you've got the hang of it.

I'll write it up as a separate thread, showing all the steps and explaining the design principles. I'll probably refer to my Metalworking thread quite a bit.

That would be a really useful thing for a lot of folks here (myself included)!

While you're on a roll, I'd love to see a similar treatise on your DASR rods. I know, I know…. you've described it in several other threads and you've even pointed me to a couple of the links but, AFAIK, there's no thread specifically dedicated to it or really detailing it and it's such a simple, efficient design.

You know… you could do it in all that free time you have!

 

[pcake]

wow, somehow i missed this. it's pretty sad - LMI was the first place we ever bought tonewood, and we always bought our truss rods there.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

That would be a really useful thing for a lot of folks here (myself included)!

While you're on a roll, I'd love to see a similar treatise on your DASR rods. I know, I know…. you've described it in several other threads and you've even pointed me to a couple of the links but, AFAIK, there's no thread specifically dedicated to it or really detailing it and it's such a simple, efficient design.

You know… you could do it in all that free time you have!

Hello Ethan;

Yeah, I suppose I could do that too, as a second or third chapter. As most of you know, I prefer Single Rod truss rods, embedded in epoxy, with all kinds of bonus features. I like them better than DADR rods for many reasons. Making the metal parts of SASR and DASR truss rods is easier, but the installation in the neck is more complex. I've shown my embedded DASR process here on Luthier's Corner in a few places.

But only a few brave members here have stepped up and tried it for themselves. Most of the folks here would really rather just buy a DADR rod and drop it into a slot in the neck. They don't want to get into too much Advanced Bass Neck Engineering yet. They're still refining their processes for cutting the slots and shaping the back. It's okay, I understand.

I guess what I really should do is write a thread about Making Your Own Truss Rods. Chapter One would be a simple basic DADR rod assembly that's easy to make up and very easy to install. Chapter Two should be a SASR truss rod, Fender Style. For those who just gotta do it like Leo. Or make a replacement for a Fender neck. Chapter Three would be an embedded DASR, one of my usual designs, with the extra features.

 

[rudy4444]

Anybody manage to get in touch with the guy that used to make the truss rods? I can't seem to reach him.

Recently when I needed DA truss rods I ordered from Bitterroot and was satisfied with them. They have different styles of rods available and one of the styles is nearly identical to the LMI rods I was purchasing. I was surprised at how reasonably priced they were.

I ordered rods from LMI in the past because I prefer a rod that installs in a channel routed with a standard 1/4" bit and doesn't require a wider portion of the slot for the adjuster. I install rods in a channel that extends at the headstock or heel so the rod can be removed and replaced at any time in the future if it should become necessary. The Bitterroot rods provide me with the same functionality.

 

[tjclem]

Truss Rod dual action 23 5/8
That one does look a lot like the LMII rods and a great price. How long does everybody like the rods to be for a 24 fret 34 or 35" scale bass to be?

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Truss Rod dual action 23 5/8
That one does look a lot like the LMII rods and a great price. How long does everybody like the rods to be for a 24 fret 34 or 35" scale bass to be?

The general rule is that the functional section should run from halfway between the nut and first fret, to about the middle of the heel. Between the 4 screws, or roughly an inch from the end of the heel.

The usual thing is to position it in the neck so the end of the adjusting head is either even with the zero line at the headstock, or even with the end of the heel.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Recently when I needed DA truss rods I ordered from Bitterroot and was satisfied with them. They have different styles of rods available and one of the styles is nearly identical to the LMI rods I was purchasing. I was surprised at how reasonably priced they were.

I ordered rods from LMI in the past because I prefer a rod that installs in a channel routed with a standard 1/4" bit and doesn't require a wider portion of the slot for the adjuster. I install rods in a channel that extends at the headstock or heel so the rod can be removed and replaced at any time in the future if it should become necessary. The Bitterroot rods provide me with the same functionality.

My associate Luthiers (Jeremy, Keith & Ellis) and I have used the Bitterroot DADR truss rods a few times, and we liked them. They aren't quite as slick a design as the LMI or FlexStrong rods, but they seemed to be good quality. And inexpensive and easily available.

 

[tjclem]

That sounds like where I like to have them end. I may call and see how many I would have to buy for them to do a custom length.

 

[tjclem]

I called and spoke with a nice woman. Unfortunately I would have to order 200 They are made in Korea. The same factory that Fender and Gibson use. They also tried to get LMI to hook them up with the truss rod maker they had and they refused. They sell the LMI style ones to G&L But they only do 22 fret basses.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I just looked at Bitterroot's truss rod page, and I was surprised to see the variety of types of DADR truss rods that they carry. From cheap to fancy. The ones I've used and been happy with were the blue ones, the cheapest models.

The fancy ones with the brass blocks look suspiciously like the Stew-Mac Hot Rod models. I wonder if that's where Stew-Mac has been getting them, from Bitterroot? Or are both of them buying them from someone?

By the way, my Build-It-Yourself DADR truss rod will be similar in construction to that fancy brass block model. But with a few improvements.

 

[tjclem]

I just looked at Bitterroot's truss rod page, and I was surprised to see the variety of types of DADR truss rods that they carry. From cheap to fancy. The ones I've used and been happy with were the blue ones, the cheapest models.

The fancy ones with the brass blocks look suspiciously like the Stew-Mac Hot Rod models. I wonder if that's where Stew-Mac has been getting them, from Bitterroot? Or are both of them buying them from someone?

By the way, my Build-It-Yourself DADR truss rod will be similar in construction to that fancy brass block model. But with a few improvements.

You are using the 23 5/8" ones on 24 fret 34 scale basses?

 

[Bruce Johnson]

You are using the 23 5/8" ones on 24 fret 34 scale basses?

Hey Tom;

No, we used them to replace broken truss rods in MusicMan 20 fret necks, using the process of inserting them from the back, through the skunk stripe.

Hey, I'm going to get on this next week, and start making up a couple of prototypes of my DADR design. Would you like me to make one or two up to the dimensions you need, and I'll sell them to you for some nominal fee? You can test out the design, and report how well it works, or doesn't. In the thread, I'll be documenting the process of how you and everyone else can make them yourselves.

Let's work out the dimensions that you need.

 

[tjclem]

Hey Tom;

No, we used them to replace broken truss rods in MusicMan 20 fret necks, using the process of inserting them from the back, through the skunk stripe.

Hey, I'm going to get on this next week, and start making up a couple of prototypes of my DADR design. Would you like me to make one or two up to the dimensions you need, and I'll sell them to you for some nominal fee? You can test out the design, and report how well it works, or doesn't. In the thread, I'll be documenting the process of how you and everyone else can make them yourselves.

Let's work out the dimensions that you need.

OK sounds good. Thanks! Do you happen to have any of the LMI ones left? I have one in case you need it. For 34-35 scale I like the total length to be 26.25" I used a 1/4" router bit to install them.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

An update on the Do-it-yourself DADR truss rod:

I actually started making up the first prototype last night. To the 26.25" overall length that Tom requested. It went pretty well, but I had a couple of problems during the assembly. I'm going to make a few changes to the design and make another attempt tonight. Still in the R & D phase. When I get the design all worked out, I'll write up a new thread showing all about how to make them.

I'm going to do some real testing too. I'll make up a dummy test neck that the rods can be easily mounted in, and get some real data on how much torque bends the neck how far. And take at least one of them up to where it snaps. Or explodes in flaming shrapnel. Or cracks the test neck. Destructive testing is one of the small pleasures of mechanical engineering.

 

[ardgedee]

I'll make up a dummy test neck that the rods can be easily mounted in, and get some real data on how much torque bends the neck how far. And take at least one of them up to where it snaps. Or explodes in flaming shrapnel. Or cracks the test neck. Destructive testing is one of the small pleasures of mechanical engineering.

Video! Video! Video!

My dad was an electrical engineer, at one point in his career he was responsible for testing components and circuits on locomotives being developed. They used capacitors for energy storage which were maybe 6 or 7 feet long, weighed hundreds of pounds and had to be tested to failure. The facility had a blast chamber for this, because the failure state was usually induced by pumping them full of electricity until they couldn't take any more. I got to tour it once, but not while they were stress-testing capacitors. It was before the era of digital video, so to the best of my knowledge there were no media recordings. A real shame.

 

[tjclem]

An update on the Do-it-yourself DADR truss rod:

I actually started making up the first prototype last night. To the 26.25" overall length that Tom requested. It went pretty well, but I had a couple of problems during the assembly. I'm going to make a few changes to the design and make another attempt tonight. Still in the R & D phase. When I get the design all worked out, I'll write up a new thread showing all about how to make them.

I'm going to do some real testing too. I'll make up a dummy test neck that the rods can be easily mounted in, and get some real data on how much torque bends the neck how far. And take at least one of them up to where it snaps. Or explodes in flaming shrapnel. Or cracks the test neck. Destructive testing is one of the small pleasures of mechanical engineering.

Awesome! Looking forward to the results.

 

[thisSNsucks]

I've been using bitterroot rods for a while, they're solid.

I'd totally be into the diy rod though. Always looking to make more stuff in house.

 

[Freekmagnet]

Video! Video! Video!

The facility had a blast chamber for this, because the failure state was usually induced by pumping them full of electricity until they couldn't take any more. I got to tour it once, but not while they were stress-testing capacitors. It was before the era of digital video, so to the best of my knowledge there were no media recordings. A real shame.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Bruce is going to use a blast chamber for his truss rod tests.