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Bag End S15-D

#2
VEGANBASS said:
Hey, looking to buy a Bag End S15-D, but it seems they only come in 8 ohms? For some reason I thought they were available in 4 ohms as well... was I wrong?

I have a 4 ohm Eminence Pro Kappa LF. Would that be a good match for the bag end cab?

:)
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They only came in 8 back in the day... I'm pretty sure that's the case. Given the relatively high -3db roll off and the very mid present tone, they are quite efficient and loud, adn the recommended power handling is quite low (I think 250 watts?)... so the 4ohm deal for a single cab is not that key. The s15-d/s15dx stack (with the coax tweeter) is a very nice little rig for old school with a little added sparkle!!!!

Don't know much about the speaker swap... I'll leave that to others!
 
#5
VEGANBASS said:
So you're saying the efficiency of the cab will make up for running 8 ohms at 350w

versus 4 ohms at 600w?
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That cab was designed specifically for that particular driver. It's a nice cab. Loud enough for you ? Maybe, Maybe not. Changing the driver to something else isn't a very good idea though. If it isn't loud enough for you, get a second one or sell it and continue the search.
 
#7
VEGANBASS said:
So you're saying the efficiency of the cab will make up for running 8 ohms at 350w

versus 4 ohms at 600w?
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Yes, absolutely. You have to DOUBLE the power for a 3db gain!! A 10db gain is 10X the power. Since 600 < 2x350 you will get about a 2db gain. It means that getting a little louder is very expensive and it gets worse every little bit louder you want to get.

That's one thing that is really great about the S15D. It has great efficiency, 103db@1W1M. Much higher than many speakers.
 
#9
Hey Vegan- I see you're possibly on the hunt for the excellent BE S15-D. Outstanding! As a current owner, let me throw out a few pence worth of IMO.

They aren't that bad to carry. The handles allow you to carry the cab grille up, and against you, so it balances well. The cab is so compact that it's not awkward at all. Also, it goes in and out of a car trunk like a dream, being so small.

If you get an S15-D, I'd advise you to stay with the factory driver, and maybe sell the Kappa LF.

Other current and previous owners have already remarked on the efficiency of the S15-D. It is a loud, loud cabinet, and will get louder than you may ever want or need on its recommended maximum 250 watts RMS power. Get two - like Ken said - run them hard, and you will be loud enough for metal.

Yeah, right, it isn't a really linear cabinet. Like any other smaller cabinet, it does have some low-end rolloff. The mids are not as clear as a three-way cab. So what? It's a great sounding cab. Vintage, yes, but it has an aggressive, punchy sound that works great for many settings, particularly rock. Add some judicious amp EQ, and the cab can change personalities from punchy and aggressive to smooth and sweet.

I like running my S15-D with a small SS amp (the Carvin PB-150H) with my passive Spirit XZ-25 with HAS Sound electronics. I can get tubey sounding grunt- grindy low mids with a smooth top end. I think at least part of why tube amps are popular among bassists is the cabinets they use are too pretty sounding, too clear, and trebly. It's amazing how tubey sounding the S15-D is with a SS head.

Get one, run it stock, play it out live a lot, and enjoy! It's a very practical, useful, real-world bass cabinet.
 
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#11
BFunk said:
Excellent post MichealVee. The S15D is a "real-wordl" cab. Don't get hung up on the attenuated ultra-lows. Those frequencies are highly overrated in real world situations.
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Thanks, BFunk!

Somebody posted on TB either yesterday or this morning the generally accepted concept that the majority of energy in bass guitar sound is in that area above 70 Hz to around 120 Hz, which is where the S15-D excels.

Two more things: The S15-D sounds fuller at a certain minimum volume than it does at very low levels. There is a definite sweet spot where the cab comes alive and really starts emitting big sound. Of course, this is true of many cabinets, and at least partly reflects the human hearing physiology.

The other thing is that within reason, these cabs handle a low-end bump VERY well. If you need more oomph at a lower volume, hit it with about 3-5 dB boost on a shelving bass EQ (say 60 Hz on down) and it's quite noticeable. It doesn't take much to get an ultra deep sound.
 
#12
+1 to all above. I love my S15-D/S15X-D stack! Using it tonight at a Christmas party in Chicago. Great sound, very easy to handle.

Vegan, are you the guy who's got a WTB ad running right now on bassgear.com? Just curious...

There was also, for a very long time, a guy named Freddie from Birmingham, AL that had a remaining S15X-D for sale on bassgear.com, and he may still have it. Search on that site for it if interested.
 
#13
Yeah, I'm the guy with the WTB ad on Bass gear for the S15D. I've got two responses already so I'm hoping one of those pan out.

I wanted to thanks you guys for all the great info in your posts. I'm almost positive this cab will suit my needs perfectly. I'm going to try running it with the stock driver and see if it fits my volume requirements, which it most likely will. I play in 3 piece Rockabilly group so the band volume isnt unreasonable.

Further comments certainly welcome!
 
#15
To the above praise, I can only add that they are engineered and built to last a lifetime. This is the tradeoff for the extra lbs, but I feel it's more than worth it in the long run. A beautifully simple and efficient design, I really don't see how you can beat it.
As far as the 'old school' badge, I wonder if some of the current boutique cab$ will be around long enough to become old school. We shall see...
 
#17
I'll throw out some additional thoughts regarding the Bags. After having owned the Bags for a few months, it's easier to see what BE's design philosophy was. Let's build a compact, easy to move, and loud cabinet that doesn't try to do everything, but is exceedingly optimized for it does do.

With the Bag S15-D, you have a reasonably light cabinet that is very compact yet contains a 15" driver. The air displaced by the 15" is more than a 10" and less than, yet comparable to, a 2x10. The S15-D is rated at 103 dB efficiency. It doesn't take very much power to get intensely loud with the S15-D. It has tons of usable apparent bass without really needing to pour on the lowest frequencies. In gig situations, it fills out a band and fills up moderate venues.

It doesn't have ultra-lows and ultra-highs, and the lower treble frequencies probably aren't dispersing well because they are coming off a 15". So there are a number of technical reasons that this cabinet shouldn't sound as good as it actually does.

Bag End set out to create the optimum bass cabinet within the design limits they set. And that's what the S15-D is- an optimized cabinet. It's built well, and it is a player's cabinet.

Looking at the S15X-D, which is a bit heavier due to the compression driver and crossover, you've removed the lack of ultra-highs. You have a cabinet that can get very bright and is very present. The only thing that is missing with it are ultra-lows.

We've had a number of threads on TB in 2006 debating whether or not it's imperative to reproduce 40-50 Hz and below at high levels. There are many differing opinions, but a good number of us believe that in live sound reproduction, those lowest frequencies can be reproduced by your stage amp at a level substantially below the harmonic range (80 and up) without compromising the sound. Anyone working with a good PA will have the lowest freqs in the house, without them also needing to be produced on stage.

Personally, I find that both cabinets sound great live.
 
#18
Instead of adding a S15X-D to your S15-D, I would take a look at the S12X-D. I know they don't list this model on the website, but I was able to pick up a slightly used one from tombolus, so I know they do make them. IMO, this sounds great when combined with the S15-D. The 12 has less beaming effect and the added concentric horn adds a nice bit of highs without harshness. I am using this with my Kern IP-777/ Crest CA-9 rig. I am playing in a blues/country band. The bass is usually a Fender Roscoe Beck IV, sometimes a '73 P with flats, or other 4 stringers. IvanMike turned me onto this combo. (Minus the horn in the 12 in his case.)
 
#19
Great stuff guys.

I just came across this review:

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It states that...

The small cabinet is convenient, but unfortunately there's a big price to pay in terms of sound. At louder volumes, the S-15 D didn't have much low end to offer. The cabinet is rear ported. Placing it in a corner or near a wall can help in theory, but in practice, it doesn't help enough. This was my main speaker for a year and a half and I got consistent observations (and complaints) that the bottom just wasn't there. It got to be pretty frustrating, trying to use this cab as a stand-alone with loud drums and guitars.
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I have to admit this has me a little concerned, but 2 things have eased my concerns a bit

1. Apparently these cab take to eq well so you can always add some lowend in.

2. As has been mentioned, the cab has been designed to sit in the mix, some would agree that all that lowend is wasted energy/power as its ultimately just translated into rumble etc. If you're using this as a convential 15 under a 210 it isnt going to perform the way most would want it (ie covering the lowend sound spectrum).

Personally, I am going to use one BE S15-D as a stand alone.

Geddy Jazz >Bass PODxt > Focus SA > BE S15-D. That's it. If the tone is acceptable to me, this cab will be the key component to putting together a fantastic portable rig
 
#20
For me a small 1x15 is the most portable package that will cut it in a smallish rock setting. 1x12's don't have enough push (and I've owned and currently own several of the better ones out there) and 2x10's are usually going to be bigger and heavier. If portablility is a big concern a compact 1x15 is perfect for rock gigs in smallish - less than 200 people - rooms which there seems to be an abundance of in NYC.
 

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