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Band expenses

#61
Man i just lost a book i wrote. Bssically it said before anything, the band needs to play anywhere anytime, get stage sntics build s solid following. If thst happens everything the band wants will happen slowely. The band should pay for a demo and now days peiple want press packets. Money should not go out except for that. If a band pays to play its not going to happen..also make sure he stays in school. My succes was from age 16 to early 20's and we partied everything away. I was totally lost on life when the fun ended...
 
#62
In agreement here. Especially with Jive's advice.

Sounds to me like a "stage mom" is being taken by people for top dollar, and she's passing the costs down to you. Like others have mentioned before, approach it like a business investment and stand up for yourself. If this manager/mom all of a sudden cops an attitude with you or comes up with "reasons" why your son can't be in the band, then you know it's a scam and you're better off.

At 16, I'd hate to have your son soured on music and being in a band if this turns out to be a bad experience. You can still look into it but take the right steps to protect your kid and yourself financially and creatively.
 
#63
Danger Will Robinson... I would not pay in a dime on this project. "Stage mom" is going to use YOU (your dollars) to fund her sons dreams, and regardless of the outcome you will likely not see the money returned. I would tell your son that this is not a sound business move and the singer is the only one that may benefit. I totally agree with Jive here, money invested in this project would be much better used for good lessons and a bass rig.
 
#69
bassmeknik said:
Danger Will Robinson... I would not pay in a dime on this project. "Stage mom" is going to use YOU (your dollars) to fund her sons dreams, and regardless of the outcome you will likely not see the money returned. I would tell your son that this is not a sound business move and the singer is the only one that may benefit. I totally agree with Jive here, money invested in this project would be much better used for good lessons and a bass rig.
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This was my thought too. If you're going to put this four-figure coin into the band, then you should get a contract written that will protect your investment and not just flush it down the drain. For instance, make it a loan that the management will owe you as an investor in the band, with a specified payment plan. They can, of course, make their payments out of money the band makes in the future, but would be obligated to repay it regardless. And your son's ownership stake in the band should be laid out in black and white, with a clause for a severance payment if the singer signs with a label without the rest of the band included. That's just me brainstorming, an entertainment law attorney could advise you better.

What you do NOT want to happen under ANY circumstances is pour thousands of dollars of your money into a band, with nothing to prevent this singer using it for a launching pad and then taking off without them, and your son makes squat for money after all the investment. Get it in writing, no verbal agreements, and make sure the other band members are on board doing the same.
 
#70
There's a guy over here, Frank Turner, whose videos on YouTube have mostly about 250 to 450k hits. He's selling out arena shows in the UK right now. I know he's making money.

The idea that a band regularly getting 300k plus hits on YouTube isn't making enough money off live shows to invest in recording an EP... We'll, it just doesn't seem right somehow.
 
#71
pipFunk said:
There's a guy over here, Frank Turner, whose videos on YouTube have mostly about 250 to 450k hits. He's selling out arena shows in the UK right now. I know he's making money.

The idea that a band regularly getting 300k plus hits on YouTube isn't making enough money off live shows to invest in recording an EP... We'll, it just doesn't seem right somehow.
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Yes, but did he build a name and a career BEFORE the whole YouTube success? And does he have the musical skills to back it up for such gigs? Just having online 'hits' on your page doesn't mean you're a rousing success.
 
#73
Several comments on here that essentially amount to something - quit worrying about vidoes or recordings and practice and make sure the music is good.

Well, we all know that it is not as simple as that. Did anyone see the Grammys?? Most of the "musicians" did not actually do any music, but just danced to per-recorded music.

It takes incredible music talent, but also pictures, video, recordings, fan outreach, good management, good support from all the behind the scenes people, networking, networking, networking, a million other things, and most of all LUCK, to really make things happen.

Like any business,,, you have to have a good product - that is the band! Then like any good business, you have to diversify your products with other revenue generators - that is CDs, T-shirts, video, etc. Then like any good business, you have to have marketing - web page, video, music, Face Book, twitter, etc.

It is all important if you want to be successful. Decide what "success" means to --not just you, but all of the band members (share holders), and you develop your plan from there. Do these guys want to make a living or do they want to be on MTV?

Again, right now, a $3500 music video seem excessive. Do a $500 vidoe (I think you can produce a professional 4 minuet video for that), and if you can make something happen with that (good paying gigs, youtube hits, ad revenue form youtube), then you know you got something and you keep stepping up the game.

Just get all the details in order first, or someone is bound to get screwed!!!
 
#74
All this advice on what OP should is spot on, however I don't think he's calling the shots so it may be a matter of take it or leave it.

That said, I agree there's no way I would get involved in this.

As to the tax question, you can show a loss on a business, but only occasionally (US). If you don't claim a business profit some years, your "business" is not a business but a hobby and hobby expenses can only reduce hobby income to zero... hobbies cannot take a loss deduction against other income.

Doesn't matter if you're a partnership, LLC, or sole agent: claim a profit some years and you can take a loss some years. Perpetual loss = attention from our friends with the IRS.
 
#75
jive1 said:
I think you need to approach this like any investment....
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This is where I have to differ. It's an expense, not an investment, unless it produces something of value that can generate income. In my view it's a bad habit to use the word "investment" to rationalize expenses that are probably going to be written down as sunk costs.
 
#76
fdeck said:
This is where I have to differ. It's an expense, not an investment, unless it produces something of value that can generate income. In my view it's a bad habit to use the word "investment" to rationalize expenses that are probably going to be written down as sunk costs.
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I agree. It's only an investment in the way we invest time and effort into our bands, and/or money in stuff that we know we're not going to see back. ;)

I don't think any of us really have ever asked what the ROI on buying a mic or a speaker cable.
 
#77
I spoke with the band manager and her husband and received clarification. he provided a spreadsheet outlining all cost for 2014. it appears the video production cost are total. they plan on one video per month (approx. $350 per video). to be uploaded to youtube to keep content current. there are also fees for updating social media (website, reverbnation, visual media, posters, artwork, t-shirts, etc)
EP cost are broken out into recording, production, mixing, mastering, etc.
the spreadsheet is very comprehensive and was indicated that it is worst case scenario. they are always looking for ways to reduce cost through networking, etc.
there is an amount set aside for booking venues (pay for play) I know everyone has strong opinions on this.
not sure if we could get ownership in the band as it is established and the name is copywrited. My son does get copy credit and royalties if any if he contributes to the song writing process.
so far everything seems on the level however it may be a bit ambitious
this is not my sons first band. he has been playing guitar and bass since the age of 9
we have invested well in his lessons and music education which we believe has paid off that is why he earned a spot in the band through audition.
each band has been a progressive experience where he has paid his dues and learned his chops. This band may not be the big time but appears to be a step in the right direction.
I will be monitoring cost closely and staying involved as I always have in his previous bands.
I will keep everyone posted on how things are going
appreciate all the advise
 
#79
vqlt said:
I spoke with the band manager and her husband and received clarification. he provided a spreadsheet outlining all cost for 2014. it appears the video production cost are total. they plan on one video per month (approx. $350 per video). to be uploaded to youtube to keep content current. there are also fees for updating social media (website, reverbnation, visual media, posters, artwork, t-shirts, etc)
EP cost are broken out into recording, production, mixing, mastering, etc.
the spreadsheet is very comprehensive and was indicated that it is worst case scenario. they are always looking for ways to reduce cost through networking, etc.
there is an amount set aside for booking venues (pay for play) I know everyone has strong opinions on this.
not sure if we could get ownership in the band as it is established and the name is copywrited. My son does get copy credit and royalties if any if he contributes to the song writing process.
so far everything seems on the level however it may be a bit ambitious
this is not my sons first band. he has been playing guitar and bass since the age of 9
we have invested well in his lessons and music education which we believe has paid off that is why he earned a spot in the band through audition.
each band has been a progressive experience where he has paid his dues and learned his chops. This band may not be the big time but appears to be a step in the right direction.
I will be monitoring cost closely and staying involved as I always have in his previous bands.
I will keep everyone posted on how things are going
appreciate all the advise
Click to expand...

Just two quick things.

1. Make SURE you get his royalty pay out and percentages in writing.

2. Social media or (community manager / street team) duties should be handled by the manager for FREE or farmed out to a friend or band mate. That is the quickest cost savings I see. Don't pay a "professional" to simply update the bands gigs on their Facebook and Twitter.
 
#80
Calculate with the worst case!! And add 10% to that!
My opinion? If you are not willing to dump a bunch of money into your sons hobby, get out as long as you can. This is going to be expensive and you (leave alone your son) will not have the influence you may think you have. The behaviour of the singers parents is dominant to say the least. You will have a very difficult time to argument against them and in WORST CASE situations, you will not be able to rely on them - they will go for the luck of their own son.
This is a gut feeling from experience. If you go into this, I STRONGLY advise you to capture all what have been said/planned on paper with a signature of especially the singers parents.

You wouldnt be the first that is naive enough to believe that they put your sons name on the copyright-list while they haven't.
 

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