Band Gear: Who Owns What

[john_g]

My band has a potential upcoming issue regarding band gear. Im curious what others think. Im going to purposely be a little vague.

"Bandmate A" technically started what would morph into this band. I joined about 6 years ago. Multiple lineup changes including a person that decided to leave after he purchased a piece of gear. He "donated" it to the band when he left for band-use (I have the original text and this is almost word for word). We then stabilized the band for over 4.5 years now. Bandmate A and I are the only ones that were in the that band with previous person. That band even had a different name.

Bandmate A will now need to leave the band at the end of the year because of schedule conflicts. He has now said he owns the piece of gear and is going to take it with him. Our other bandmates think we should keep this gear as it was "donated to the band". There are a couple of gray areas i dont know how i feel about:

• Bandmate A insisting its his property. I have the text from the person that bought it and he said he donates it to the band for band use.
• Other current bandmates think its band property...they werent even in a band with this person and I would be the only link left from that time. If I leave, current band leader will certainly take possession (kind of already has, and used it for side projects). Just feels weird.

The whole thing feels like a big gray area lol I hate "band owned gear". Im not losing sleep over it or anything, just a situation i was wondering what others in bands think?

 

[JonathanPDX]

What does Bandmate A say when you show him the text and talk through the history? Does he incorrectly remember having purchased the item himself? Does he feel he's entitled to it just because he's been in the group for the longest? It's hard to know the right course of action without understanding his reasoning.

This is why you should never, ever have band-owned gear.

 

[Dlew919]

Split the money evenly and buy your own gear. You can't do that now.

What piece of gear is it? If it's an instrument, maybe sell it (cheap) to bandmate a. If it's a pa, sell it and split the proceeds.

 

[fdeck]

I think, unless it's a life changing amount of money, write it off, or accept a token amount.

My high school band worked this way: The guitarist bought a bunch of obsolete gear for pennies on the dollar, and I kept it working. When we all graduated, he kept the gear, and I kept my electronics repair experience. I couldn't think of a future use for the gear, and it was in fact the last rock band I ever played with. The guitarist used the gear for his own working band, and as it became more successful, he replaced the old stuff with new.

 

[MIMike]

Contact the former band member that bought it/donated it and tell them that you need to give it back. If they say they don't want it, ask them who should take possession of it. Unless, band mamber A is taking the name of the band with them when they leave. If so, the equipment should probably go with them,

 

[Pulverizor]

Tell that member he owns it and can have it as soon as the band is finished using it.

What's the dollar value?
Is it a collectable or desirable item?

 

[ga_edwards]

It belongs to the band; you have proof in writing. It doesn't matter who is in the band, whether it's bandmate A, B, C or yourself. The whole lineup could change, but it still belongs to the band IMHO.

 

[el murdoque]

It's either property of the band or it is property of the person that paid for it. I don't see where Bandmate A, who is neither (or will be, by the end of the year), finds a patch of earth large enough to stake his claim.

The three roads I'd see would be

A) sell the gear and give every current member of the band a share. If the band needs it, the band could 'buy' it by finding a fair price and then paying Bandmate A their share of the 'sale'.

B) contacting the donor (if possible) and either telling them that there is a dispute about the ownership of said item and what they think about Bandmate A's claim.

C) Insisting on the thing being band property and telling Bandmate A to stuff his claim where the sun don't shine.


...well, technically, there's also D) Let Bandmate A have it.

 

[gtirard]

I don't know the accounting and legal rules in the USA, but I live in France and we've created an association for our band, with a separate bank account (we use it when we send an invoice for a gig or sell CDs online). So we can view the association as a small company (a company that has no objectives of profit, but a moral entity nevertheless).

Back to your story, it's super clear for me that the gear has been given to "the band", not to its members, and the goal was to help the group continue after the donor's departure. I would even say that if *you* leave the band one day, so that no original member remains, it would still belong to "the band". For me it's super clear, there should be no discussion IMO.

 

[_One//Man//Mutiny_]

If he's already been using it outside of the band. I feel like it's a little late to stand your ground about it, I'd say live and learn. I've been burned by the "donating to the "band" thing" in the past. I have a full bands worth of stuff now, so my take away from my experience is (you can use yours or you can use mine). But I know where I stand with every piece of gear I play with. If someone tries to donate I respectfully decline. If it's a drum set or a PA I would highly recommend keeping your own even if it's junky, those are 2 pieces of gear that have paid off immensely by having my own, just opens up so many opportunities by having them available at any given time.

 

[EvilJ]

It's just stuff..and you can always buy more stuff.

Let it go and be happier.

 

[DWA2469]

I get the "take the higher ground" approach and let him have it! To me principles matter! If no one ever takes a stand, this person will not learn! I would confront him with the text and tell him if the band is not keeping it, it will be going back to the original owner!

 

[KenSmithFan]

So "Bandmate A" bought the piece of equipment, let the band use it for six years and is leaving the band and is going to take it with him. What's the gray area? You're going to argue over what "donate" means?

I'm glad I'm not in that band because there is something wrong with you guys for even questioning this. The correct response would be, "Thanks for providing that all these years for FREE. Best of luck in your new endeavors."

 

[ardgedee]

I don't know the accounting and legal rules in the USA, but I live in France and we've created an association for our band, with a separate bank account (we use it when we send an invoice for a gig or sell CDs online). So we can view the association as a small company (a company that has no objectives of profit, but a moral entity nevertheless).

Some bands in the US do that. The band Sonic Youth was formed as an independent company that owned all the equipment used by bandmembers, so when it broke up the assets -- everybody's guitars, basses, amps, drums, effects pedals, leftover teeshirts, etc. -- were sold in batches on Reverb. Presumably band members had the option to buy anything they liked before they were sold publicly but there were plenty of items that had become high-value as a combination of being vintage and being used by them. There are still some unsold items on Reverb.

It's a trickier thing for lower-profile bands to do, though. It's not expensive (or even all that difficult) to set up an LLC in the US but it means that at least one bandmember has to be, effectively, the business leader, which means extra work without extra pay for what is usually a side hustle rather than the main job.

 

[FretRiff]

(Edit: I thought the person who donated wanted it back. Since it wasn't ... never mind.)

Some people are imprecise with words. Even if he used the word donate he could easily have meant reclaimable loan... which is more legalistic and doesn't roll off the tongue and sounds dickish even if it's more accurate.

He was being nice to contribute gear for a time which he had paid for. Thank him and move on.

 

[NickyBass]

A lot of good points so far. I would probably let it go, personally. It was never really mine to begin with. I'm assuming it's some kind of PA gear.
I always thought it was funny that we spend $1000 on bass gear. The guitarist spends $1000 on guitar gear. The drummer spends $1000 on drum gear. The keyboard player spends $1000 on keyboard gear. And then the singer walks in and says the band needs to spend $1000 on a PA. But, it's been a long time since I've been in a band with that structure.

 

[FretRiff]

(Edit: I thought the person who donated wanted it back. Since it wasn't ... never mind.)

Assuming he used the phrase "donate to the band for band use" when leaving (we don't have the exact words from the OP), that sounds generous but also casual, and may not realistically refer to ownership unless he's particularly wealthy. In music circles people often speak informally. Words like "donate" can be figurative, especially in informal contexts. If he meant, "You guys can use this while I'm gone," but said "donate," that shouldn't automatically equate to a permanent, unconditional transfer of ownership. People say things all the time like, "Hey, I'll donate my amp for rehearsals," and still expect to take it back if they rejoin or need it.

As I said before people speak informally. And saying "this is for the band to use" is not exactly the same as "this belongs to the band." Donating use does not auatomatically mean donating ownership. At minimum, this is a borrowed item with unclear terms and I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the person who bought the gear and says he didn't mean to give it away permanently.

 

[MrWolf14]

A lot of good points so far. I would probably let it go, personally. It was never really mine to begin with. I'm assuming it's some kind of PA gear.
I always thought it was funny that we spend $1000 on bass gear. The guitarist spends $1000 on guitar gear. The drummer spends $1000 on drum gear. The keyboard player spends $1000 on keyboard gear. And then the singer walks in and says the band needs to spend $1000 on a PA. But, it's been a long time since I've been in a band with that structure.

Agree 100%

In my current band, PA is owned by the singer.
Since the keyboard player also uses it he bought his own monitor box.

The only thing we bought "as a band" was 2 LED stripes - total cost around 200€. …. I can't see this becoming an issue.

To the OP: I agree with what most have said. Either you let it go or you confront BandmemberA with the original text sent to you by the Donor.

 

[ceetee]

It was bandmate A who bought the piece or the person who left? Maybe it's that I'm no native speaker but this point is not clear to me. If bandmate A bought it and forgot/reconsidered his donation, let it go.

 

[DWA2469]

Some people are imprecise with words. Even if he used the word donate he could easily have meant reclaimable loan... which is more legalistic and doesn't roll off the tongue and sounds dickish even if it's more accurate.

He was being nice to contribute gear for a time which he had paid for. Thank him and move on.

I do not believe the person trying to keep the equipment, is the same person that donated it!