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Band image matters

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#121
Just playing devil’s advocate, maybe the op is the political one, demonizing/exaggerating the views of his bandmates because he doesn’t understand or agree with them. It’s a common tactic these days; Label anyone you disagree with as extremist.

Maybe they are indeed horrible people. But with no specific details, i take these accusations with a grain of salt.
 
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#123
ThinCrappyTone said:
Just playing devil’s advocate, maybe the op is the political one, demonizing/exaggerating the views of his bandmates because he doesn’t understand or agree with them. It’s a common tactic these days; Label anyone you disagree with as extremist.

Maybe they are indeed horrible people. But with no specific details, i take these accusations with a grain of salt.
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"Regional pride", "undesirables", "their country", I don't know, they don't sound too left-wing to me. :)
 
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#126
I agree about not wearing political clothing in band context, but their social media profiles are their personal accounts, and does not represent the band.
I don't know how many you are, but unless you are a three piece band, you are not alone in not being an extremist.
Band image should be an agreement between the members, and not a "4-individual-people-with-individual-personalities-and-standpoints-together."
Leave your three-arrows- or frog-flags at home.
 
#128
Wandering Bass said:
This is not about the politics as such, but rather about presenting as a business, so I'll try to generalize the political bits so the Mods don't have to strike me with lightning. And yes, I do use too many words.

We've pulled together a workable group out of the ashes of two others. Classic rock with danceable songs from the 80's, 90's, and 2000's mixed in. The music is solid, and everyone is stepping up and doing their part. That's refreshing. We have our first gig booked a few weeks from now, and several others after that.

Because of when practices are scheduled I have to be very task-focused. I get in, play through the songs, and get out. No hanging out, no socializing. I really didn't get to know them as people until we had a couple of months of practice in. Here's the issue -- while setting up our online presence I've discovered that two of the members (drummer and second guitarist) are political extremists. No, probably more extreme than whomever you just thought of.

1 -- Social media. The both have very active personal presences on social media, posting, liking, and sharing things that are often outright fake, usually threatening towards some group, and never business appropriate. They belong to online groups that I can't name because it would violate forum rules. In short, they favor armed rebellion to remove the "undesirables" from "their" county. I have asked that they create secondary accounts with a more professional, audience-friendly presentation for promoting band events and whatever, but they have both refused.

2 -- Stage image. Disclaimer -- I'm a black on black kind of guy. Regardless of the type of gig I'm wearing black pants, black shoes, black button down. The style of the venue dictates tucked vs untucked, or maybe even unbuttoned over a (black) t-shirt. I get that others like to bring some color to the stage and I'm not opposed to it at all. Both of these guys are into wearing regional "pride" shirts that contain imagery that is politically or culturally offensive to many people. I've explained that these are not appropriate given that we perform in front of mixed audiences. Why piss off your customers? They bang on about freedom to wear what they want, and hey it's rock and roll so screw anyone who doesn't get it.

I've tried having the calm discussion about band image being a big part of marketing and securing gigs. I've suggested maybe they can wear Harley Davidson shirts, what's more rock and roll than that? They insist they are being discriminated against and won't bend.

I know what the answer is -- I'm not a good fit for this band, leave. I'm struggling with it, because I have time in, the music is coming together and I want to get back on stage. Anyone have any ideas as to how to work this out?
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Skip the first 35 seconds :

 
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#129
Wandering Bass said:
This is not about the politics as such, but rather about presenting as a business, so I'll try to generalize the political bits so the Mods don't have to strike me with lightning. And yes, I do use too many words.

We've pulled together a workable group out of the ashes of two others. Classic rock with danceable songs from the 80's, 90's, and 2000's mixed in. The music is solid, and everyone is stepping up and doing their part. That's refreshing. We have our first gig booked a few weeks from now, and several others after that.

Because of when practices are scheduled I have to be very task-focused. I get in, play through the songs, and get out. No hanging out, no socializing. I really didn't get to know them as people until we had a couple of months of practice in. Here's the issue -- while setting up our online presence I've discovered that two of the members (drummer and second guitarist) are political extremists. No, probably more extreme than whomever you just thought of.

1 -- Social media. The both have very active personal presences on social media, posting, liking, and sharing things that are often outright fake, usually threatening towards some group, and never business appropriate. They belong to online groups that I can't name because it would violate forum rules. In short, they favor armed rebellion to remove the "undesirables" from "their" county. I have asked that they create secondary accounts with a more professional, audience-friendly presentation for promoting band events and whatever, but they have both refused.

2 -- Stage image. Disclaimer -- I'm a black on black kind of guy. Regardless of the type of gig I'm wearing black pants, black shoes, black button down. The style of the venue dictates tucked vs untucked, or maybe even unbuttoned over a (black) t-shirt. I get that others like to bring some color to the stage and I'm not opposed to it at all. Both of these guys are into wearing regional "pride" shirts that contain imagery that is politically or culturally offensive to many people. I've explained that these are not appropriate given that we perform in front of mixed audiences. Why piss off your customers? They bang on about freedom to wear what they want, and hey it's rock and roll so screw anyone who doesn't get it.

I've tried having the calm discussion about band image being a big part of marketing and securing gigs. I've suggested maybe they can wear Harley Davidson shirts, what's more rock and roll than that? They insist they are being discriminated against and won't bend.

I know what the answer is -- I'm not a good fit for this band, leave. I'm struggling with it, because I have time in, the music is coming together and I want to get back on stage. Anyone have any ideas as to how to work this out?
Click to expand...


I'll chime in as I lean to the right in the band I play in thats made up of hardcore liberals. My FB page is full of pro-gun stuff and firearm images. When I started in the current band Im in, the BL asked if would consider changing my FB profile pic (a photo of one of my rifles, a "black" one), to keep my image more "warm and fuzzy". I declined to do that, because first off I like the picture, and second of all I have a lot of firearms stuff come across my page from other people posting stuff there.

I did agree to create a "glocke1 bassist" page,where I post stuff thats more bass oriented and I leave politics off that.

I also don't bring politics to the gig. no shirts, no gun stickers, no NRA stickers.
 
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#130
Wandering Bass said:
... I've tried having the calm discussion about band image being a big part of marketing and securing gigs ...
Click to expand...

Sounds like maybe they're not much concerned with securing gigs, overall. I'd agree with people who point to the t-shirts as the biggest concern in this area - they're right there on stage for all to see, there's no workaround for that. If these guys have politicized social media ... well that's them, it's not the band itself. What they wear onstage is directly about how people perceive the band while you're playing, so ... problem. I don't see a solution to this.
 
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#133
I wouldn't/couldn't stay because band image matters. If you want to state political views...be a politician.

On the subject of band attire...in the 70's the band I was in wore flannel shirts and jeans appropriate for our music and venues). In the 80's the country band I was in wore matching outfits (once again, what was appropriate for our music and venues). In the 90's and early 2000's, we wore similar colors to distinguish us from the patrons at the venues we played. Today, I'm in what many people call a "dad band" and wear black jeans, a black t-shirt (or untucked button shirt) with black or white sneakers AND play a variety of music from 60's to current pop and country.

My point is that you should always dress appropriately for your music and venues...anything else is unacceptable. Lecture ended...drop the mic!
 
#135
ThinCrappyTone said:
are those their words?
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Occam’s razor.

What benefit could the OP possibly derive by maligning two of his bandmates on an interest specific and non-political forum such as TB when these guys are completely unknown to the members of this forum?

Since there’s no rational benefit to dissing these guys here “just because” I’m inclined to take the OP’s original question and the background information he supplied for why he has the question at face value.

It’s all well and good to be a little skeptical as long as you don’t let yourself fall down the rabbit hole. There are virtually no absolute certainties. But we can assign rational probabilities to things people tell us and make extremely intelligent guesses based on those likelihoods.

Human brains can speculate endlessly and churn out possible “other” explanations and “alternative facts” in a heartbeat. We humans love a good story. The entire world of conspiracy theories depends for its very existence on our ability to do just that. But from my perspective, it’s usually a good idea to think things through a little further if you’re going to play devils advocate and speculate on ulterior motives in the absence of anything to justify it. That’s just exercising some common sense as well as showing some common courtesy.

Or so I think anyway. :)
 
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#137
Like a lot of things band-related, it's a matter of ego v. success.

Has nothing to do with freedom of speech - no one is saying they can't wear them. It's not good business. Tell them you want to do Singing in the Rain and do lead vocals. Freedom of speech and all. When they say it's not good for the band, just nod, and say "exactly". But yeah, I think you are gonna have to walk.
 
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