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Band image matters

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#141
If you want to make a political statement in your band, then you can certainly do that, and you can find work. I've played as a sideman with folks like that. I don't fully share the sentiments of their songs all the time, but the content isn't racist or violent, and they are well-written songs. Still, if you're playing in a band that's primary purpose is commercial, it makes sense to distance your band's image from divisive issues. That's just good business, and you can see that going on in the marketplace: As the culture war flares up, you see boycotts threatened and companies peel off their support for groups that are taking a side in the culture wars. And it's not about what those groups might actually stand for, but how they are perceived by large numbers of the public.

I'm pretty active politically, and I'm open with my opinions. On the bandstand, however, I keep them to myself. No one has had an issue with my social media presence. Or at least it hasn't been raised as an issue! But I have my limits. A bandleader I know quit a regular gig because the owner of the place made so many racist and anti-Semitic remarks. It's just the kind of place for my group - but I won't try for that gig. Who needs the headaches?

We need to discuss politics in this country where and when it is appropriate. On the gig, it's usually not.
 
#143
Cheers from 919 buddy! Being a NC native (WHOOP!), I can imagine what you mean by the band image the way it is. If I couldn't talk them out of the image crisis, I'd leave. I'm a HUGE defender of free speech, but I wouldn't want to be involved with a band that does not jive with my personal morals and/or beliefs. Just talk to them. They may take a second look at their lives who knows.
 
#146
jasmangan said:
What you need to do is get yourself in a band that denigrates law enforcement and promotes drug use. You’ll go far .
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I think Snoop Dogg is regarded as highly successful in his genre. Also Rage Against The Machine didn't like how the law was enforced in the US and they too were successful. The hippies promoted drug use (not heroin or stuff like that though), peace and love and they were very, very successful.
Ted Nugent, on the other hand, is a dick.
 
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#147
Papalampraina said:
"Regional pride", "undesirables", "their country", I don't know, they don't sound too left-wing to me. :)
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Well, there's always anti-imperialism, which in the form of "national liberation" can certainly cross the border between the classical left- and right wing divide. Ho Chi Minh for example is one figure that both nationalists and (certain) leftists can point to and say, "I'm down with that". I think you'd be hard-pressed to find people struggling for "national liberation" in the US in the same way, however.
 
#148
Nashrakh said:
Well, there's always anti-imperialism, which in the form of "national liberation" can certainly cross the border between the classical left- and right wing divide. Ho Chi Minh for example is one figure that both nationalists and (certain) leftists can point to and say, "I'm down with that". I think you'd be hard-pressed to find people struggling for "national liberation" in the US in the same way, however.
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If you're cool with the idea of Mao's "national bourgeoisie", I'm not. ;)
And "national liberation" has two different meanings, depending from which side you're looking from. Same name, different properties.

This was way off-topic though, but I liked it. :)
 
#149
Papalampraina said:
I think Snoop Dogg is regarded as highly successful in his genre. Also Rage Against The Machine didn't like how the law was enforced in the US and they too were successful. The hippies promoted drug use (not heroin or stuff like that though), peace and love and they were very, very successful.
Ted Nugent, on the other hand, is a dick.
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I think we agree?
 
#153
Wandering Bass said:
This is not about the politics as such, but rather about presenting as a business, so I'll try to generalize the political bits so the Mods don't have to strike me with lightning. And yes, I do use too many words.

We've pulled together a workable group out of the ashes of two others. Classic rock with danceable songs from the 80's, 90's, and 2000's mixed in. The music is solid, and everyone is stepping up and doing their part. That's refreshing. We have our first gig booked a few weeks from now, and several others after that.

Because of when practices are scheduled I have to be very task-focused. I get in, play through the songs, and get out. No hanging out, no socializing. I really didn't get to know them as people until we had a couple of months of practice in. Here's the issue -- while setting up our online presence I've discovered that two of the members (drummer and second guitarist) are political extremists. No, probably more extreme than whomever you just thought of.

1 -- Social media. The both have very active personal presences on social media, posting, liking, and sharing things that are often outright fake, usually threatening towards some group, and never business appropriate. They belong to online groups that I can't name because it would violate forum rules. In short, they favor armed rebellion to remove the "undesirables" from "their" county. I have asked that they create secondary accounts with a more professional, audience-friendly presentation for promoting band events and whatever, but they have both refused.

2 -- Stage image. Disclaimer -- I'm a black on black kind of guy. Regardless of the type of gig I'm wearing black pants, black shoes, black button down. The style of the venue dictates tucked vs untucked, or maybe even unbuttoned over a (black) t-shirt. I get that others like to bring some color to the stage and I'm not opposed to it at all. Both of these guys are into wearing regional "pride" shirts that contain imagery that is politically or culturally offensive to many people. I've explained that these are not appropriate given that we perform in front of mixed audiences. Why piss off your customers? They bang on about freedom to wear what they want, and hey it's rock and roll so screw anyone who doesn't get it.

I've tried having the calm discussion about band image being a big part of marketing and securing gigs. I've suggested maybe they can wear Harley Davidson shirts, what's more rock and roll than that? They insist they are being discriminated against and won't bend.

I know what the answer is -- I'm not a good fit for this band, leave. I'm struggling with it, because I have time in, the music is coming together and I want to get back on stage. Anyone have any ideas as to how to work this out?
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why would you want to spend any time in their company at all?
are there no other bands where you don't need to be associated with people whose ideals are clearly uncomfortable for you? You'll be seen as one like them by association.
Life's too short. I'd walk asap.
I understand how it feels about the time you invested... but how do you think it's going to feel another year down the line?
walk now, and next year you'll be in another band onstage where you feel comfortable. You probably should have walked out earlier... but we're all very wise in hindsight. NOW is the time. You clearly are bothered by it that you came here and wrote about it. Inertia is the only thing keeping you with them. That's the worst reason to do anything in life.
 
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#156
scraig said:
It’s unfortunate band members screw up everything by getting into politics, sexual orientation age, race, and religion. They should just play music and set aside their personal matters.
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I disagree.
An original band almost has to. Almost...

Look at u2, rage against the machine, Bob Geldof. Everyone involved in any of the "aid" concerts or recordings - tons of bands from the 60's and 70's (Neil young, black sabbath), in the 80s and 90s megadeath and Metallica as well as iron maiden all had politically charged songs. These are personal beliefs / political.

The issue here isn't having personal beliefs and political agendas. It's having the wrong ones.
 
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#159
Leave. Apart from the moral issues of their regressive politics, as others have said, you don't want to be associated with that, professionally. I'd be reluctant to hire a musician who played with a band that advertises that kind of stuff, because I'd have to question whether or not they agreed. Politics has a place in music. In a classic rock band? Not so much.
 
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#160
Wandering Bass said:
I know what the answer is -- I'm not a good fit for this band, leave. I'm struggling with it, because I have time in, the music is coming together and I want to get back on stage. Anyone have any ideas as to how to work this out?
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This, and i'm sorry you've had to invest the time. At some point what they represent is going to rub off on you through association. They obviously WANT to send a certain message in public, hence their refusal to change. The wisest thing to do is leave, sooner than later. I can't deal with racist ***** like that.

To be honest, if folks knew i played with guys like that, it would be a death blow to my jazz career.
 
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