That really isn't the dynamic, but I'm not going to post a timeline of band events here. The next time, there will be a come-to-jeebus meeting between him and me, and if he doesn't like it, he's out.
-jb
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Band Leader Dilemna...
- Thread starter ::::BASSIST::::
- Start date
That really isn't the dynamic, but I'm not going to post a timeline of band events here. The next time, there will be a come-to-jeebus meeting between him and me, and if he doesn't like it, he's out.
-jb
Yeah, like everone said, you've kinda created your own problem by not being more assertive as you went along. It may be too late to correct the problem and get this group to work with a new style now... good luck.
Wish I could give actual useful advice, but you derailed my brain with your misspelling of dilemma.
Wish I could give actual useful advice, but you derailed my brain with your misspelling of dilemma.
How you begin something is foundational to it. Hopefully you were clear about the bands structure and purpose at the beginning and expressed it to new members as they came on board. Just reinforce it. If you didn't, then begin to organize the foundation of the band and establish it. I oversee two bands and play bass for both. Everything you said you do, I do also. We don't have those issues.
Well, the band is done. The drummer has called me a rude, condescending, argumentative bully (very far from the truth if you ask anyone who knows me) and quit. He has been in the band about 3 months but its highly likely he is going to scoop the singer and guitarist and start another band with a new bassist.
There goes a TON of work down the drain. This whole thing is very upsetting and depressing.
There goes a TON of work down the drain. This whole thing is very upsetting and depressing.
That really sucks. I feel your frustration. I'm also keenly interested in the dynamics, as I'm planning to launch my own band soon - and I wish to learn from others' experiences. 
I guess main question is: What, if anything, can you learn from this?
As for the drummer, there are those with a perpetual chip on the shoulder, who cannot accept any sort of guidance, direction...or leadership. Only you would know if he fits the type. But if so, don't lose any sleep over him.
Main question would be: "How did it come to this?", and "How do you improve upon this experience next time around?"
MM
I guess main question is: What, if anything, can you learn from this?
As for the drummer, there are those with a perpetual chip on the shoulder, who cannot accept any sort of guidance, direction...or leadership. Only you would know if he fits the type. But if so, don't lose any sleep over him.
Main question would be: "How did it come to this?", and "How do you improve upon this experience next time around?"
MM
Move on, learn from it, If you become a Band leader again, set up the the fact you are from the auditions, then anyone that doesn't like it can go somewhere else, and you get people that are fine with it and happily be in a band and be appreciative of what you do for it.
What I've learned is that:
- at some level I need some work on my communication skills. I can't help but think that if I was a very good communicator this would not have happened. I thought I was pretty good (my day job requires it as I work with oppositionally defiant teenage boys) but I think I have more to learn.
- minimize communication thru email. Discuss things as much as possible in person.
- I don't like the drama. I have enough of that at work and I dont need it in the band (which is supposed to be fun!). Therefore, at this point I am going to try to step away from the leadership role. Inevitably, somebody will think their way is right and will challenge the leader on it. I dont want to deal with the stress and headaches that causes anymore. Maybe some time down the road, I will feel differently, but not now.
So at this point I am going to invite the singer and guitarist to stay. I know a good drummer who I am pretty sure is looking for a band. At minimum I am sure he will sub for us until a new permanent drummer is found, but I hope he just stays. I am going to suggest that we re-structure the leadership so that either one of the other guys takes over that role or the band becomes a full on democracy. I think its going to be the latter.
If that doesnt work out, I will either join another band, or take some time off and try to figure things out. One thing for sure is I will keep playing... its in my blood.
- at some level I need some work on my communication skills. I can't help but think that if I was a very good communicator this would not have happened. I thought I was pretty good (my day job requires it as I work with oppositionally defiant teenage boys) but I think I have more to learn.
- minimize communication thru email. Discuss things as much as possible in person.
- I don't like the drama. I have enough of that at work and I dont need it in the band (which is supposed to be fun!). Therefore, at this point I am going to try to step away from the leadership role. Inevitably, somebody will think their way is right and will challenge the leader on it. I dont want to deal with the stress and headaches that causes anymore. Maybe some time down the road, I will feel differently, but not now.
So at this point I am going to invite the singer and guitarist to stay. I know a good drummer who I am pretty sure is looking for a band. At minimum I am sure he will sub for us until a new permanent drummer is found, but I hope he just stays. I am going to suggest that we re-structure the leadership so that either one of the other guys takes over that role or the band becomes a full on democracy. I think its going to be the latter.
If that doesnt work out, I will either join another band, or take some time off and try to figure things out. One thing for sure is I will keep playing... its in my blood.
For what it's worth, don't give up on yourself or your band.. Things might be heated now but they'll cool off soon enough and you can still salvage this. Drummers are a dime a dozen but people wiling to take on all the work required to keep a band gigging are not. I'd write off the drummer but then have an honest sit-down with the other guys and tell them how you want to run things moving forward. Tell them you value them and their input and such and keep the conversation cooperative. You might be surprised at how much they do value what you do, especially once they hear about it from your lips. You may want to make things more democratic but be prepared for the more likely result that the other guys won't step up to do the work required. If you're comfortable doing the work, take the credit and assert yourself as bandleader.. Best of luck..
As up front as you can be about your feelings in the future, the better. Basically, the opening post of this thread said it all, and if you can state those feelings in a kind way to your bandmates, then most of your battle is already won. And for goodness sake, if you are doing management duties, then take your 10-15%!
besides being the founder, this is what I do:
-book 90% of gigs (including getting the cheques cashed, follow-up ph calls etc). The drummer has only ever booked one gig and nobody else has but me.
-own, transport, setup/tear down the PA
- write and organize the setlists
-pay for and maintain the band website
- maintain the facebook page
- take care of business such as banners, business cards and marketing materials
-drive the drummer to and from gigs and rehearsals and shoe-horn a lot of his kit into my car.
Basically, besides booking rehearsals, I do everything.
No offense intended but it looks to me like you are already in way over your head. If you can't reel them in and come to an understanding about who's running the show then things are not going to get better and these guys are going to continue to not only let you do it all, but take that for granted as well as take advantage of it.
If you're going to be a band 'leader' then you need to be assertive and take charge. Otherwise the inmates will run the asylum. And tell the darn drummer to haul his own gear.
-book 90% of gigs (including getting the cheques cashed, follow-up ph calls etc). The drummer has only ever booked one gig and nobody else has but me.
-own, transport, setup/tear down the PA
- write and organize the setlists
-pay for and maintain the band website
- maintain the facebook page
- take care of business such as banners, business cards and marketing materials
-drive the drummer to and from gigs and rehearsals and shoe-horn a lot of his kit into my car.
Basically, besides booking rehearsals, I do everything.
No offense intended but it looks to me like you are already in way over your head. If you can't reel them in and come to an understanding about who's running the show then things are not going to get better and these guys are going to continue to not only let you do it all, but take that for granted as well as take advantage of it.
If you're going to be a band 'leader' then you need to be assertive and take charge. Otherwise the inmates will run the asylum. And tell the darn drummer to haul his own gear.
jive1
Commercial User
Why would they go with the drummer?
Does the singer or guitarist really want to haul the drummer and his gear to every rehearsal and gig?
Does the guitarist, drummer, or singer have a PA?
Does the guitarist, drummer, or singer book gigs?
Is any of them capable of organizing a band?
Are any of them capable of producing promo materials?
If the answer is no, then you really don't have much to worry about. You could communicate to your remaining band members what you have to offer, and let them know you appreciate what they provide, and they may be able to see that the grass may not be greener on the other side.
IME, the guys who really want to work appreciate those who help them find work, and keep them working. These guys tend to have been around the block a few times, ran a show here and there, and know what goes into making a band successful and appreciate those that put in the elbow grease.
Why would they go with the drummer? They've all become buddies.
Does the singer or guitarist really want to haul the drummer and his gear to every rehearsal and gig? I guess they will have to. I also assume they will be asking their new bassist, when they get one, to drive him around too. One of the best things to come out of this is I no longer have to deal with a carless drummer. I won't put myself in that position again.
Does the guitarist, drummer, or singer have a PA? Nope
Does the guitarist, drummer, or singer book gigs? The drummer has led bands before, but he is from out of Province (moved here two yrs ago) so he doesnt quite understand how the venues operate around here. He is looking for ALOT more money than they will pay and hence has booked only one gig.
Is any of them capable of organizing a band? The drummer is. He can do all the work now. Ha.
Are any of them capable of producing promo materials? Probably. Essentially, the singer and guitarist do nothing but show up and play their instruments. If they go with the drummer he will be doing everything.
The guitarist has emailed just a short while ago and has said that he is out and I am guessing the singer is too. I have some thinking to do. I know for sure that I am finished with being a band leader so I guess my only other option is to join or collaborate with another group. The thing that sucks is that I have alot of drive and ideas to bring to the table, but I just cant deal with the drama on an ongoing basis.
Does the singer or guitarist really want to haul the drummer and his gear to every rehearsal and gig? I guess they will have to. I also assume they will be asking their new bassist, when they get one, to drive him around too. One of the best things to come out of this is I no longer have to deal with a carless drummer. I won't put myself in that position again.
Does the guitarist, drummer, or singer have a PA? Nope
Does the guitarist, drummer, or singer book gigs? The drummer has led bands before, but he is from out of Province (moved here two yrs ago) so he doesnt quite understand how the venues operate around here. He is looking for ALOT more money than they will pay and hence has booked only one gig.
Is any of them capable of organizing a band? The drummer is. He can do all the work now. Ha.
Are any of them capable of producing promo materials? Probably. Essentially, the singer and guitarist do nothing but show up and play their instruments. If they go with the drummer he will be doing everything.
The guitarist has emailed just a short while ago and has said that he is out and I am guessing the singer is too. I have some thinking to do. I know for sure that I am finished with being a band leader so I guess my only other option is to join or collaborate with another group. The thing that sucks is that I have alot of drive and ideas to bring to the table, but I just cant deal with the drama on an ongoing basis.
Sounds like it is for the best though.
From my experience I've found that a band has to have personality synergy and it has to be a team on every level. Members who conflict with that just prevent progress and are a waste of everyone's time.
It's best to lose 'em as quickly as possible and move on.
This happened to me last Saturday night, although the bully on the scene was someone else. As you mentioned in the OP, I did all bookings, managed all money & business, ate the tax bite for everyone, created and maintained the website, own the full PA, own the trailer, typically did a major part of the setups and on and on. I did all of this while absorbing 90% of the business expenses for the band and got paid nothing additional for doing it....(It was my preference too....thought I was being a good guy)....
I think sometimes some people just resent this kind of giving. After awhile they begin to feel obligated to you and this makes them feel crowded and they have to move on. Unfortunately, it's the good guy that they single out as the problem and take it out on, and because you think you're doing the right thing, it hurts even more.
This is the second time this sort of thing has happened to me in the past ten years.
I went to work on Sunday in a phenomenal blues band that is one of two who have been recruiting me for the past several months, so I know the split had nothing to do with my playing. I'm a side man from now on. I'm happy to let someone else handle all the other stuff and will thank them for it while I'm thinking about the next groove.
Sometimes you can just try too hard and give too much. And, it just doesn't work well that way.
It is disgusting and depressing, but you'll get over it. Just learn the lesson.
Good luck.
Koog
ACK! This is a person who should be avoided at all costs!!!
But seriously, sorry about your situation. I wish you luck in your future musical pursuits!
