Band Manager as Band Member?

[fingerbun]

Having read both your threads, sign nothing and quit now.

You are being asked to sign over all your future earnings to a manager who is acting against your interests.

 

[ibateur]

Develop self-esteem and assertiveness then join a band.

From the looks of it there's nothing legal putting you in debt to mom. Unless there is a contract, this is between her and the singer.

Just quit.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

You guys should agree to pay back any money that has been fronted to you as a certain percentage of the band's income until it's payed back. After that, the band should take over. I wouldn't agree to anything beyond that.

 

[bluewine]

How many paid gigs do you in a month?

I would request receipts and a monthly expense report from her, like any other business.

Blue

 

[mam1862]

Pay her back what you guys borrowed from her to buy whatever equipment she paid for. Even throw her some interest. It should end there. At that point the band makes all decisions and only the band. Good luck.

 

[bearhart74]

Mom as manager + son as songwriter + daughter as singer spells revolving door for the other band members

 

[PlungerModerno]

Mom as manager + son as songwriter + daughter as singer spells revolving door for the other band members

+1.

The free exchange of Ideas and resolution of issues would depend heavily on the balancing of power... It would be impossible to 'lead' a band like that without getting them all to join 'your' band... and a democracy would be impossible given the emotive bonds between family members.

Two related members could work, three can work, even more, but that success is contingent on the above: A fair leader, or a fair democracy. All other models are pretty much doomed to shed people and talent as power struggles take their toll.
Money makes most people... less nice. If your management has a huge bias they are a threat to the members. Asking for extra privileges (to be both manager and member...) is a power grab and a bold admission of the intent to lead, not advise IMO.

Scary Stuff, good luck. Some of the people on this forum truly know what they're talking about. I'm mainly speculating, but I suspect I'm on the right track. Listen to Munji. Get a Lawyer. Don't sign till you've checked every part 10+ times.

 

[fdeck]

I can't fathom what you get from signing any kind of agreement with a band that will never pay you. At the same time, it sounds like you're already good enough to attract work as a hired gun, so why do you need to be entangled with a band?

I suggest putting yourself first here. Blood is thicker than water. The purpose of a family business is to support a family, period. On the other hand, it's arguable that the band is not a business. A real business would have signed agreements, and would be making a profit, mooting the issue of paying back the band mom. You'd be justified in assuming that the band is a hobby of the band mom and her kids.

Depending on where you stand with the band, I suggest offering two possible options when the rest of the band signs the agreement:

1. Offer to play with the band on the same terms as everybody else, but with no formal obligations such as owing anybody money.

2. Offer to work for the band as a hired gun, for a fixed rate per gig plus all expenses paid.

The band will do what it wants, but you're a bassist, meaning that you're both expendable and marketable. If the other guys like working for the band mom, that's their prerogative.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Run, Forrest, run!

 

[dbbxyz]

 

[guy n. cognito]

You're getting some great advice.......all of which should have been followed before you took mommy's money. You're getting ready to learn the golden rule: she who has the gold makes the rules.

 

[jive1]

I have an absolutely great mother, but there is no way she'd ever be in a band with me. No way. Why the heck would I have someone else's mom in my band?

There's no thought or discussion required. The answer is obvious.

 

[Stumbo]

If she's a band member, she can be fired by a majority of the members. Or can she?

Also, ask for a detailed record of all income and expenses including merchandise, etc.

By her spending money on the band, she's put all of you in debt. If she doesn't tell you ahead of time how much money she's spending then you'll be in debt forever. What's the total debt? How long will it take to pay off? What if it never gets paid off and she wants her money back?

Seems to me that she wants to get everything in writing so you acknowledge your debt to her and it will become a legal document so she can sue you and file on your credit report if you don't pay her back, whether you in the band or not.

How can you be in a band where you'll never get any cash in your pocket?

I'd speak with an contract/entertainment attorney to find out what your position is with all the issues involved.

IMO, I suspect this lady is so enmeshed with her kids(band and non-band) that she'll never let them go....and you don't want any part of that. Seems like you wants some kind of permanent relationship with all the band members so you can't leave without incurring huge financial costs.

Are you running now, Forest?

 

[fdeck]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage

 

[pmchenry]

Did I miss something? People are talking like there are two children in the band now, with the mother as manager... If I understood the OP correctly, it's just a single member(lead singer) who was born of this lady. Which means, it's only a single member who is going to be potentially pissed off when he says "no deal".

TB thread morphing somehow turned this into the brady bunch band.

 

[jungleheat]

TB always does that, especially in band management. Some lazy person makes a comment after failing to carefully read the OP, and then 1 or more future lazy people repeat the myth and it becomes accepted. Is it really that hard to keep track of what's been said and who said it?

Anyway, definitely don't make her a member. Why would you? Is she going to appear on stage? If not, then duh! She's not a member of the band and it's insulting and offensive that she would even ask. Rookie mistake, maybe? But at any rate, she needs to be shut down in this quickly and completely.

I agree with the general consensus. Pay her a percentage (10% sounds about right) if she's doing the work (booking, etc...), then maybe pay back her "investment" at some percentage (maybe another 10%). That's it. That's all she gets. And make sure to discuss beforehand any future "loans"/investments.

Look at it this way, you guys can be broke on your own, right? So why have someone else interfering and making things more difficult if they aren't contributing to YOUR financial success?

 

[guy n. cognito]

Did I miss something? People are talking like there are two children in the band now, with the mother as manager... If I understood the OP correctly, it's just a single member(lead singer) who was born of this lady. Which means, it's only a single member who is going to be potentially pissed off when he says "no deal".

TB thread morphing somehow turned this into the brady bunch band.

Yes, I think you missed something.....

 

[Mystic Michael]

I'll just add that the basic principle is: The manager works for the band. The band does not work for the manager.

I mention this only because the proper structuring of this relationship seems to be such a matter of chronic confusion here in Band Management; as in: "Help! Our manager is making us do things we don't want to do! What can we do?"

The way it's supposed to work is that the band members hash out decisions amongst themselves, with the leader making the final call, and determining specific objectives & metrics, as necessary. The leader then communicates these objectives & metrics to the manager, and together they work out a plan for implementation...and reporting of results.

The manager can and should also serve in an advisory role, giving the band the benefit of his/her knowledge & experience, by providing strategic counsel to help inform & guide band decisions. But at the end of the day, it is the band that makes those decisions - not the manager. And realistically, that means the band leader (ideally with consensus).

MM

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Having slept on this a night, this is my advice - leave the band. This band sounds completely dysfunctional, and its only going to end in a legal bloodbath if the other members agree to sign anything which will allow the singer's mom (and in turn, the singer) that much power. Just tell them, "Thanks for everything guys, but it has become obvious that we approach music from two completely different mindsets. Best of luck to you all, and if you ever need a sub for a gig feel free to hit me up. Thanks" and have that be the end of it. Also, don't bring up any sort of payment you (may) owe back to the mom. Just walk away from this as cleanly as you can and consider it a life lesson in band management.

 

[Munjibunga]

See an attorney before you sign anything!

My view would be that this woman has loaned the company money. She deserves to get that back, with interest (say, 10% APR - see an accountant for how much to pay).

All financial records belong to the band, with every member having full visibility.

Payback should be from all income sources until the loan has been paid off. Once the loans are paid off, she is entitled to nothing.

If she makes a booking for the band, she's acting as the booking manager, and should get 10-15% of the booking fee. The rest should be split between the band members.

If she wants to be a manager, she should get 10% of all your earnings - but should NOT get her money on the loans repaid - that should be accepted as her investment in the band.

She did not write any songs, so she gets no royalties. If her son wants to give her a proportion of his royalties, that's up to him. So if you both write a song, it would be 50/50. If she gets a cut, it would be (say) 50/25/25 - you still get your 50%. If you write a song without anyone else, she gets exactly 0%, and you get 100%.

Keep a tight hold on *your* song-writing royalties! Never give them away to anyone!

This all reminds me of the 1950's, when all the great musicians knew nothing about business. They all died poor, and their managers made millions. Knowledge is power!

Final thought. If your band is doing well enough that the above is a real financial issue, then you don't need her anyway....

She shouldn't get any money back unless a formal agreement regarding repayment was made with all concerned before she spent the money. If there was no agreement (oral or written), there is no contract and there is no remuneration.