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Band turns record deal down

#23
I'm sure there is a set of books at EMI that shows the Beatles still haven't covered their original advance. Record companies have earned every bit of contempt heaped upon them. Whoever collects the money (and keeps the books) has the power. There aren't many industries where this isn't the case, but record companies are legend in the dark arts of misrepresenting revenue.
 
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#24
mdogs said:
You do realize that this is how contracts get negotiated, right? This is not some underhanded process as you seem to intimate...
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Difference between negotiating, and trying to get the other party to sign a changed agreement without them knowing. Whenever I sign a multipage contract, I always initial every page to try to prevent this.
 
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#25
mdogs said:
You do realize that this is how contracts get negotiated, right? This is not some underhanded process as you seem to intimate...
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Oh no, I didn't think there was anything underhanded about it. Our lawyers were completely upfront about everything. It just seems ridiculous to do it that way. Why not just talk, and get everything negotiated in one sitting?

Anyway, I don't know, or care. At the time it seemed like the process would go on for weeks, when I think a few phone calls could have settled most issues fairly quickly. Maybe it was a billing thing? More hours, more money $$$.
 
#26
Robroy said:
There was a story a year or so ago about a guy that treated his contract with VISA (IIRC) like a real estate contract. That is, they sent him an offer for a card, complete with fine print. He then scratched out and modified the parts he didn't like, initialed the changes, signed it and sent it in. They sent him a card and tried to enforce the contract as originally sent. He sued. I don't know how it worked out, though.
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he won. I remember the article too. judge asked them how it feels to have their practices used against them. it was capital one.
 
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#28
This comment sums up my thoughts (and those of about 200 other people, apparently) so I'll just repost it here:
As someone who has experience being signed to a label (several times) what you described as "standard" for this contract might be standard for a major label (in fact, I looked up the standard major label contract and it's basically what you described except it looks like a major label pays bands MORE in royalties), but not an indie label. A standard indie label contract is usually something like: 2 albums with a 3rd option (meaning once the 2nd is released the band and label can negotiate whether they want to do a 3rd without signing a new contract), the label pays for the recording, mastering, and promotion as an advance (meaning they pay for that stuff up front as sort of a loan and then they recoup the money they spent out of the bands share of the royalties) and the label and band split the royalties from sales 50/50 after the cost of pressing(which the label also pays for or the band can buy cases of cds/records at cost and sale them for what they want at shows). This was also explained to me by my bands ongoing entertainment lawyer (who also represents bands like Valient Thorr and Ben Folds Five) as the standard indie contract and that we should never accept anything less or expect to see any money regardless.
Once the label has recouped their advance they'll just promote more and we'll never really get money from the sales, is what we were told. I've seen contracts like the one this band were offered before, ones that our lawyer described as "similar to what they used to offer black blues players in the 30's". It really irritates me that you
1.) berate the band for not wanting to take a contract that's obviously loaded with poopie
2.) call them "whiny" for wanting to negotiate the contract. Seriously, would you just sign a contract without having a lawyer look over it, Vince? That's exactly how so many bands get themselves in to tough, poopy contracts they can't escape. This is also what Steve Albini told bands to absolutely avoid in his article "The Problem with the Music Industry", an article I was so happy that a producer friend suggested I read before signing my first contract. Seriously, what incredibly poopy advice you are giving any young musician who might have read this. You can not only lose the rights to the name of your band if you don't comply (if they list such things in their contract, which is sounds like they probably did) something like this could destroy a good band, and it has before. Once you're signed you have to be bought out or you're stuck.
Seriously, MetalSucks has posted a bunch of stupid shaging articles before, but I've stuck with you.....this though? Way to support the musicians, Vince (by the way, your pen name is shaging stupid. I'm not surprised this article is too). Even if this contract were "standard" it just points out the problem with the music industry and why musicians don't ever make any money. This is just as bad as the "pay to play" ********. Things need to change and you're not shaging helping, jackass! This band would be better off putting out their album themselves and hiring a promotion company like CMJ. Any young musicians reading this, if you're ever offered a contract get an entertainment lawyer to look over it, it'll probably cost you no more that $100-$200, but it's worth it. Don't just be grateful you're being offered a contract, you've got to be smarter than that and the more bands refused to get screwed the less we will.
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If 13% royalties with A&R approval of all released music, label ownership of all previously released material, label approval of band members leaving, and an obligation for five albums is the standard these days, then the standard needs to change for everyone's sake. Good on these guys for not falling for this garbage.
 
#31
Winfred said:
Oh no, I didn't think there was anything underhanded about it. Our lawyers were completely upfront about everything. It just seems ridiculous to do it that way. Why not just talk, and get everything negotiated in one sitting?

Anyway, I don't know, or care. At the time it seemed like the process would go on for weeks, when I think a few phone calls could have settled most issues fairly quickly. Maybe it was a billing thing? More hours, more money $$$.
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One of my old bands negotiated a contract this way while on tour in the early 2000s. We would find a place to print the contract and read over it then consult with our manager who would have things changed before sending it out again. Went back and forth for weeks then ended up with a different label.
 
#32
How often do we hear about bands that don't attract a following, don't sell tickets and disappear having signed the same contract ? Never. I'm not saying the band were fools for walking but I'd like to know where they'll get a better deal considering nobody appears to be competing for them.
As in all business, if you only get one offer for your goods or services it's not likely to be a good one.
 
#33
Accepting this deal would be like a rent-to-own situation for the band: a front-loaded, un-ending liability. If they get their stuff together and build their own audience, they'll find a better deal by accident. If they don't get their stuff together, at least they'll be free.
 
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#34
MultiScaleMale said:
I know I'm old, but ditch the Cookie Monster screamo crap and the band is really good.
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its not screamo, it's metalcore. big difference. most of the bands in the genre are some of the most talented players i've ever heard, well guitarists and drummers mostly. the bassists are hit or miss, but the vocals are what a lot of people complain about. but then you get a band like affiance that is the same music with clean vocals and they only go half as far as the other ones. anyway here is a pretty interesting one



Roland GR 88 said:
How often do we hear about bands that don't attract a following, don't sell tickets and disappear having signed the same contract ? Never. I'm not saying the band were fools for walking but I'd like to know where they'll get a better deal considering nobody appears to be competing for them.
As in all business, if you only get one offer for your goods or services it's not likely to be a good one.
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you're never gonna hear about the ones that arent successful. accept bands get dropped from labels all the time. so it does happen. and no contract is definitely better than this contract
 
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#36
petrus61 said:
You know what happens to 99% of the material that gets absorbed by the labels in these circumstances? It winds up on throw away compilations that are given away at state fair hot dog eating contests or is farmed out to obscure European markets, where it winds up being given away at goulash eating contests. One would be lucky for it to be seen, let alone picked up for treatment by a big name star. On the upside, you could wind up being the Elvis of Moldovia with thousands of records sold and not even be aware of it:)
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Goulash eating contests. LMAO.
:)
 
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#37
MultiScaleMale said:
I stand corrected, but still hate it. He has a really good voice too, but I guess I'm not their market.
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didnt mean to come off like an ahole there. sorry. yeah man, not everyone can like everything you know. its all good. I was more just lamenting on the fact that a lot of people say what you do "they're really good except for the vocals" but then the ones with clean vocals never go anywhere... I just find it interesting.

this video is funny as hell tho

 
#38
DwaynieAD said:
didnt mean to come off like an ahole there. sorry. yeah man, not everyone can like everything you know. its all good. I was more just lamenting on the fact that a lot of people say what you do "they're really good except for the vocals" but then the ones with clean vocals never go anywhere... I just find it interesting.

this video is funny as hell tho

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Exactly, the problem with Affiance is too much of the cleans. Gets old too quick.
 

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