Band's first time using a soundperson

[skwee]

Hello, Gang:

Had our post-mortem meeting about my band's debut gig. The consensus was that since we had access to a volunteer sound person (I'm not sure if this will be a production student or musician from another band), that we should use him/her at least once as a consult/for our next gig.

We have a 24-channel mixer that we know pretty well, but our keyboard player made some discoveries about playing and mixing at the same time during the gig, and we also had some 11th-hour changes to settings because theory and reality didn't meet up in our soundcheck. I have worked with numerous professional engineers at theaters and halls, but this is all very homegrown: bars, backyards, and possibly coffeehouses without their own PA. Here are my questions:

Should we have a sound model in mind that we'd like the sound person to create?

Would there be enough of a "set and forget" factor so we could dial something in and then photograph/notate so we have it for future reference?

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

First of all, kudos for realizing the importance of a sound person and having the wits to do something to improve the experience of Your audience.

It'll be paid back many times with happier attendees, more gigs and eventually more money.

We have a 24-channel mixer that we know pretty well, but our keyboard player made some discoveries about playing and mixing at the same time during the gig, and we also had some 11th-hour changes to settings because theory and reality didn't meet up in our soundcheck.

Sounds all too familiar for most of us I recon.

Should we have a sound model in mind that we'd like the sound person to create?

Verbal, no.

If You have a recording, a EP or a demo, then definitely yes.

When I was doing the very few FOH duties I had back in the day (I was mainly the monitor/foldback guy) the managers who were serious about their acts would bring a LP or EP for the FOH person to listen before the gig and to familiarise him-/herself with the band.
Two weeks in advance was the norm.

Would there be enough of a "set and forget" factor so we could dial something in and then photograph/notate so we have it for future reference?

Depends on how the PA is set up.

The classic (obsolete IMO) "ringing it out" which some swear by and others like me swear at, provides virtually no "set and forget" possibility.


The approach I was taught in the early 90's may "waste" some potential of the PA system, but provides somewhat constant sound from a venue to venue.
Especially handy IME if mixing from the stage.

I have (/had) a reference music that I use to EQ the mains (and the monitors if there's decent EQ's in them) to sound the same way every time.
ZZ-Top's Eliminator had the perfect mix of differently engineered tunes for all kinds of music styles for me.

Nowadays tech minded people often rely on pink noise and RTA, but music is often nicer to listen to during the sometimes lenghty (if manual) EQing process .

When the FOH sounds the same as it always does, the need for tweaking the channel EQ's and AUX feeds should be minimal, and the FOH person can concentrate on working with the vocal FX and level adjustments on the solo parts during the performance.

This all somewhat assumes that You use Your own mixing desk(s) and mics every time of course, but even if the desk(s)/mics change, a constant FOH sound upwards of the desk outs is IME still the easier route.​

Good luck.

Regards
Sam

 

[Downunderwonder]

A photo or notes will get you closer than a zeroed board for sure Considering how much tweaking goes on you wouldn't want to regard it as set in stone.

It's never optimal to mix from the stage. Certainly no crime to tell your volunteer what you're looking to achieve. If they are any good you'll sound much better with the ears out front.

 

[frnjplayer]

The closest you can come to "set and forget' is if the same people play with the same gear at exactly the same levels and tones in the same room every time.
Change any of the variables and you've changed the sound out front.
Having a sound guy that knows how you should sound and can deal with the changes that different rooms and PA's can throw at you makes him at least as valuable as a drummer.

 

[lowendblues]

Check your sound person out for experience and treat him well.

He is as important to the band as one of the band members, and remember,,,,, he is in control of the "suck" button.

 

[skwee]

Great advice, everyone! We appreciate it.

 

[Downunderwonder]

How much EQ does your mixer have?

 

[ddnidd1]

The closest you can come to "set and forget' is if the same people play with the same gear at exactly the same levels and tones in the same room every time.
Change any of the variables and you've changed the sound out front.
Having a sound guy that knows how you should sound and can deal with the changes that different rooms and PA's can throw at you makes him at least as valuable as a drummer.

+1

 

[lfmn16]

Just my opinion, but if you want a professional sound, get a professional soundman, not a student, not a musician from another band, but an actual soundman that knows what he or she is doing. I do not proscribe to the opinion that you can just yank somebody off the street and teach them sound, or at least not bring them up to speed quickly. YMMV.

 

[ddnidd1]

Just my opinion, but if you want a professional sound, get a professional soundman, not a student, not a musician from another band, but an actual soundman that knows what he or she is doing. I do not proscribe to the opinion that you can just yank somebody off the street and teach them sound, or at least not bring them up to speed quickly. YMMV.

+1

 

[walterw]

the trouble with keyboard players and drummers trying to mix at the same time is they can't slip out front on a wireless to actually hear what they're doing (unless your keyboard player has a keytar, and maybe some parachute pants and a mullet to go with it )

 

[skwee]

How much EQ does your mixer have?

It's this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0037036QA/ref=pe_385040_30332200_TE_item

 

[Downunderwonder]

Pretty basic then. You can certainly have ballpark vocal mic A,B,C but no getting around dialing in.

Some venues ring out their system and lock it away. Others you will benefit from noting the EQ once you've fixed the smiley carnage left by the last village idiot.

 

[ggunn]

Pretty basic then. You can certainly have ballpark vocal mic A,B,C but no getting around dialing in.

Some venues ring out their system and lock it away. Others you will benefit from noting the EQ once you've fixed the smiley carnage left by the last village idiot.

Back in my learning days I was once escorted from the sound booth because of my putzing with the house EQ. With good reason, I might add.

 

[will33]

Soundguy is using you for practice. Send them the best, most already-balanced, self-mixed sound you can, so they can spend more time on levels and less time trying to fix bad sound.

Tune the drums.

Tune the drums.

Tune the drums.







Tune the drums again.

 

[skwee]

Well, the good news about the drums is that our guy's main instrument is a cajon with a lot of aux. percussion. It's pretty amazing how versatile that thing can be. Other plusses are that our level of constructive criticism is high and transparent--helps tons when everyone on stage is qualified to say "hey, that level/note/tone" isn't great. The tough part is that all of us hop between multiple instruments, so it front-loads a lot of the work--and we have to hope that the level we got on our fiddle player's mandolin or guitar is the same as in soundcheck.

 

[trevcda]

Should we have a sound model in mind that we'd like the sound person to create?

Verbal, no.

If You have a recording, a EP or a demo, then definitely yes.

Lots of good answer and advice so far.

As a guy that spends as much time on the other side of the faders, I'll add this to the above quotes: There is nothing wrong with having an idea of the sound your looking for and even suggesting to someone who you've hired to run sound for you. But before you do, make sure you're giving them that sound to work with. Too many drummers I've worked with, for example, want to sound like "insert name of cool drummer d'jour" and think it can be done from the board despite the fact that a) they're just not that talented and b) their drums sound like cardboard appliance boxes being tossed down a flight of stairs. The drummer in my band, conversely, joined about six year ago and the first time we ever played together I looked at his drums and heard a couple warm ups and thought to myself, "Carter Beauford (DMB)". Sure enough, at the first gig I mic'd his kit and threw a few judicious gates on here and there and invited him out front to hear his own kit. He looked at me and told me I nailed it and that for years everyone had tried to make is kit sound like a heavy metal kit with spikey kick and power toms even though that's not at all what it is or how it sounds. The point being, make sure you sound like who you would like to sound like. A good sound man will hear that and simply make it louder. With a few refinements.

 

[samson3382]

Well, the good news about the drums is that our guy's main instrument is a cajon with a lot of aux. percussion. It's pretty amazing how versatile that thing can be. Other plusses are that our level of constructive criticism is high and transparent--helps tons when everyone on stage is qualified to say "hey, that level/note/tone" isn't great. The tough part is that all of us hop between multiple instruments, so it front-loads a lot of the work--and we have to hope that the level we got on our fiddle player's mandolin or guitar is the same as in soundcheck.

If your already communicating you've got that goin for ya. When I used to gig at places with house sound guys, I would always personally tell him/her, "if you need me to turn down, or up, don't hesitate to tell me". It lets them know you want to work WITH them. not one of those guys that's WAY to loud, and WILL NOT turn down. Some sound guys I've met were sick of that battle, and had just given up.