Banished to the DI Zone

[socialleper]

You're talking about using a giant cabinet as an EQ. Use EQ to EQ.

Touche.
But isn't the color, the character of different amps the reason multiple brands exist at all? If one could just eq their way from a SVT to a Trace Elliot to a Hartke wouldn't there only be one amp and one cab company?

 

[socialleper]

it 's still your fault, because the tone is in your fingers!

That's a well worn myth that holds no water with me. It is witty and little else.
My fingers won't make a passive split single coil sound like an active dual humbucker. My fingers won't make steel round wounds on a fretted maple neck sound like tape flats on a fretless.

 

[Warpeg]

About 50% of the time I am asked to go in DI, and I'm fine with that. Give me a BDDI after my pedal board and decent volume out of a wedge, and I'm a happy camper. Besides, it's bass....no one in the audience can tell the difference between a DI'd tone and a mic'd tone anyway.

 

[GBBSbassist]

I just always sort of assumed that because bass cabinet design was a lot more complex then guitar cabinet design, that getting a good mic'd tone from one was also more difficult. I've never heard anyone state anything like that, it's just a silly assumption in my brain.

The only thing I know for sure is what I don't know about mic'ing vs di'ing. I know nothing.

The first time I played a gig and saw a DI box on top of my amp, I told the sound guy he left some of his gear over here.

 

[Munjibunga]

@agedhorse @lz4005
There is a difference between what sounds "cleanest" and what sounds "real" isn't there?
Much of what makes a guitar amp and cab sound right in a recording is all the imperfections, or rather the character of it. Mic placement, rooms, etc are about trying to recreate the sonic finger print of a live performance of a guitar. The choice of amps and cabs are to purposefully color the guitar's tone.

I am starting to feel that too much clarity in a bass signal doesn't do the bass any favors in some cases. Me of a year ago would punch me of now in the nads for saying that, but I'm starting to change my mind.
What is the rig everyone gets all happy in their pants about? The SVT-CL and 810 fridge. Neither are pure, or uncolored. After mucking about with sims, IRs, and an actual 810 in a rehearsal space, I've realized that the imperfect, slightly scooped, and a little wooly tone of that beloved rig is what makes it sit "in the mix" so well. It finds that sweet spot in the lows that aren't too subby, and the lack of super crisp high mids is pretty forgiving. When I recorded a bass line straight out of my Mesa D800, it had trouble locking in with a guitar riff played through an Orange sim\IR. When I put it through a SVT-CL + 810 sim\IR, it grabbed on to it perfectly. It sounded more "real" even thought it was going through some digital voodoo because it was trying to emulate what we are used to hearing when we see a live band. A head right into a DI or board, without a cab, without any room noise, isn't what we are used to hearing, so it doesn't sound "natural."

Does that make any sense?

Nah.

 

[GBBSbassist]

That's a well worn myth that holds no water with me. It is witty and little else.
My fingers won't make a passive split single coil sound like an active dual humbucker. My fingers won't make steel round wounds on a fretted maple neck sound like tape flats on a fretless.

There's truth to your statement, but that's not really what "the tone is in the finger" means, nor has it ever meant that.

 

[Wisebass]

That's a well worn myth that holds no water with me. It is witty and little else.
My fingers won't make a passive split single coil sound like an active dual humbucker. My fingers won't make steel round wounds on a fretted maple neck sound like tape flats on a fretless.

xactly!

Thats why I like a fretless MM style, with rounds and a tube amp with a mic!

My sound is me, my instrument and my amp! (a tort pickguard won 't help )

greetings


Wise

edit fretlesswithtwotttttttttshould stpoppdrinkin

 

[lz4005]

Touche.
But isn't the color, the character of different amps the reason multiple brands exist at all? If one could just eq their way from a SVT to a Trace Elliot to a Hartke wouldn't there only be one amp and one cab company?

That's not how the world works. There are at least 25 companies making clones of P basses. By your logic there should only be one.

Amps and cabs are very different from each other. We're only talking about cabs here. Like I said before, if power amp distortion is part of the sound you're after there are post-power-amp DI's for that.

As long as you aren't using speaker distortion as part of the sound (which I know some people do), you can in fact EQ your way to duplicating almost any speaker cab frequency response for recording purposes.

 

[JRA]

there are a lot of choices for the modern bass player. being "banished to the DI zone" isn't really a thing for a competent player who is supporting a show/session. DI's help a lot of players get on with the show!

makes for a great thread though!

 

[socialleper]

There's truth to your statement, but that's not really what "the tone is in the finger" means, nor has it ever meant that.

If an axiom isn't immediately clear, it isn't very valuable. I've only ever heard this one here. Style is in your fingers. Put a player on any bass and their singular idiosyncrasies will still pop up. That isn't tone though.
To tie this back to my OP, if I've gone through the trouble of assembling my sound with an amp and a cab, doesn't removing half of that going to have an impact on the final product? It may speed up tracking, but slow down mixing since now the tone I wanted and had isn't there anymore.
Maybe I'm the only one frustrated by that.

 

[JimmyM]

Well like it or not, some of us do consider the insistence that we use a DI as some sort of punishment. The idea that out of all the open mics on a typical stage, the one and only mic that's going to screw the pooch is the bass cab mic is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[lz4005]

To tie this back to my OP, if I've gone through the trouble of assembling my sound with an amp and a cab, doesn't removing half of that going to have an impact on the final product? It may speed up tracking, but slow down mixing since now the tone I wanted and had isn't there anymore.
Maybe I'm the only one frustrated by that.

Have you, in this hypothetical, precisely crafted your tone with the final mix in mind or just made it what you like to hear?

 

[socialleper]

That's not how the world works. There are at least 25 companies making clones of P basses. By your logic there should only be one.

I am a little baffled as to why so many P copies exist, or why any cost over $1000. That's another fight for another day.

 

[socialleper]

Have you, in this hypothetical, precisely crafted your tone with the final mix in mind or just made it what you like to hear?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I learned my lesson about the difference between bedroom tone and "in the mix." It took a while, but I learned it.

 

[MDBass]

As long as you aren't using speaker distortion as part of the sound (which I know some people do), you can in fact EQ your way to duplicating almost any speaker cab frequency response for recording purposes.

Why would anyone choose to arbitrarily do exponentially more work than necessary?

Option 1: Take the time to find and apply the complex additive and reductive EQ structure you’re looking for.

Option 2: Click your mouse twice to apply the cab IR (which is inherently a complex EQ response curve) you know already has it.

Totally get your point if you’re taking about micing a live cab in lieu of a DI, but cab IRs were specifically mentioned here.

 

[LoTone]

Is it possible that it is just more convenient for the Sound Man/Woman?

I am not a Professional bassist. I am asking; I am not stating.

I have consistently read that recording bass always seems more complex than other instruments. Does that "stigma" translate to live sound as well?

 

[agedhorse]

@agedhorse @lz4005
There is a difference between what sounds "cleanest" and what sounds "real" isn't there?
Much of what makes a guitar amp and cab sound right in a recording is all the imperfections, or rather the character of it. Mic placement, rooms, etc are about trying to recreate the sonic finger print of a live performance of a guitar. The choice of amps and cabs are to purposefully color the guitar's tone.

I am starting to feel that too much clarity in a bass signal doesn't do the bass any favors in some cases. Me of a year ago would punch me of now in the nads for saying that, but I'm starting to change my mind.
What is the rig everyone gets all happy in their pants about? The SVT-CL and 810 fridge. Neither are pure, or uncolored. After mucking about with sims, IRs, and an actual 810 in a rehearsal space, I've realized that the imperfect, slightly scooped, and a little wooly tone of that beloved rig is what makes it sit "in the mix" so well. It finds that sweet spot in the lows that aren't too subby, and the lack of super crisp high mids is pretty forgiving. When I recorded a bass line straight out of my Mesa D800, it had trouble locking in with a guitar riff played through an Orange sim\IR. When I put it through a SVT-CL + 810 sim\IR, it grabbed on to it perfectly. It sounded more "real" even thought it was going through some digital voodoo because it was trying to emulate what we are used to hearing when we see a live band. A head right into a DI or board, without a cab, without any room noise, isn't what we are used to hearing, so it doesn't sound "natural."

Does that make any sense?

It depends.

 

[Aidenn7]

50/50 di and mic.. Was standard for most.. Rock.. Because of distortion.. Now with speaker sims now are suppose to be amazing.. Honestly if don't like a Di bring your own mic and set it up..

 

[byacey]

There are a few good reasons to use a DI:
1) If the DI signal is picked off before the amp input, the amp can be distorting, crapping out, on fire, but the FOH will still have a useable signal.

2) Using a DI excludes any sympathetic rattles, buzzes and vibration from the cabinet or nearby objects getting into the FOH send.

3) Better isolation and lower noise floor.

4) Less chance of the bass player messing up the mix midway through a performance by knob twisting on the amp (although if the bass is too loud through the amp, it messes everything up.)

5) Much more flexibility in EQing the bass send signal, as it isn't pre-EQd through the amp and speaker. I know many advocates of micing a bass cab will argue, but the mic'd cab tone on stage isn't always the best tone for FOH.

 

[seamonkey]

Many guitars are going DI these days.
They got all kinds of effects and modeling that all meet at the amp and it goes DI from there.