Banished to the DI Zone

[Sumaru]

FWIW, the guitarist in my cover gig, which is ampless, uses the Avid Eleven rack, and sounds spectacular.

For me, this is the solution. I'm running into the Eleven Rack, with some final tone shaping duties handled by my VT Bass rackmount. I always ask for the DI line and feed it from the affected DI out from the VT bass to FOH. I consistently get positive comments on my tone, and that is my return on investment!

 

[Wisebass]

It depends.

Sorry! I couldn' t resist!

Wise

 

[bassboysam]

So was maxing out at 100w... things improve

i was being sarcastic

 

[mellowinman]

Guitar: Tone comes from amp, and can't be replicated via DI
Bass: Same deal, but many bass players cause the sound guy lots of problems. Add to that the fact that bass players are harder to beat up than guitar players, and you get "let's just DI them."

 

[bucephylus]

For me, this is the solution. I'm running into the Eleven Rack, with some final tone shaping duties handled by my VT Bass rackmount. I always ask for the DI line and feed it from the affected DI out from the VT bass to FOH. I consistently get positive comments on my tone, and that is my return on investment!

I considered the Eleven, based on what I’ve heard. But, so far, I am extremely pleased with what this setup is delivering.

 

[Sumaru]

I considered the Eleven, based on what I’ve heard. But, so far, I am extremely pleased with what this setup is delivering.
View attachment 3181762

To each his own! I originally bought the Eleven as an effects unit/DAW interface for home recording. Decided to attempt to extend its value by using it live once (and my LH1000 solely as a power amp) and havent looked back. It's a wonderful piece of kit.

 

[Sumaru]

I considered the Eleven, based on what I’ve heard. But, so far, I am extremely pleased with what this setup is delivering.
View attachment 3181762

To each his own! I originally bought the Eleven as an effects unit/DAW interface for home recording. Decided to attempt to extend its value by using it live once (and my LH1000 solely as a power amp) and havent looked back. It's a wonderful piece of kit.

 

[DanAdams]

Even if you think your tone is better through a mic (it's probably not), your bass mic is degrading the overall mix with the rest of the band .
Every open mic causes bleed, bleed causes phase issues, not just for your bass, but for every other little sound that is getting to your mic (the band AND the monitor mix). Also the noise floor is raised with every additional mic.
The stage is NOT the studio. Studio and bedroom techniques often do not translate on a stage, especially when monitor wedges are blaring back at you.
Additionally, mics don't capture the 'true sound' of your rig, especially the large dynamic mics that are often used. The common mics used on bass cabs can add massive changes to your sound, and even slight movements of the microphone will shift your tone big time.
I'm glad to see that the overall feeling about DIs is improving among bass players.

 

[lz4005]

Why would anyone choose to arbitrarily do exponentially more work than necessary?

Option 1: Take the time to find and apply the complex additive and reductive EQ structure you’re looking for.

Option 2: Click your mouse twice to apply the cab IR (which is inherently a complex EQ response curve) you know already has it.

Totally get your point if you’re taking about micing a live cab in lieu of a DI, but cab IRs were specifically mentioned here.

Cab IRs are EQ. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Micing a cab is exponentially more work. Picking the correct microphone, moving it around to the right angle and distance from the best sounding of however many speakers the cab has, using multiple mics if the cab has an internal crossover and a horn, and that's just the beginning. You also have to deal with bleed, the potential for added distortion by sending too high SPL at the mic, etc.
That vs a speaker simulator, whether a pedal or plugin or EQ curve.

 

[agedhorse]

Guitar: Tone comes from amp, and can't be replicated via DI

Without the guitar, there is NO tone.

 

[brianrost]

the basic SS DI boxes most venues use

Cheapo active DIs only exist because they can be made for less money than a passive DI using transformers. Get a Radial passive DI (ProDI or JDI) and you will be very happy.

 

[micguy]

Many guitars are going DI these days.

In my world it's about 50% - and increasing - for electrics. We're just...ahead of the (electric) curve. Acoustic guitars have been almost 100% DI'd for at least a decade.

 

[JimmyM]

There are a few good reasons to use a DI:
1) If the DI signal is picked off before the amp input, the amp can be distorting, crapping out, on fire, but the FOH will still have a useable signal.

2) Using a DI excludes any sympathetic rattles, buzzes and vibration from the cabinet or nearby objects getting into the FOH send.

3) Better isolation and lower noise floor.

4) Less chance of the bass player messing up the mix midway through a performance by knob twisting on the amp (although if the bass is too loud through the amp, it messes everything up.)

5) Much more flexibility in EQing the bass send signal, as it isn't pre-EQd through the amp and speaker. I know many advocates of micing a bass cab will argue, but the mic'd cab tone on stage isn't always the best tone for FOH.

1. So why isn't this done for guitar if it's important?

2. Number of times this has ever happened in my lifetime or been an issue at any show I ever went to in my lifetime: 0.

3. Isolation, yes. Noise floor is debatable.

4. Legit issue for newbs and rank amateurs. Of no significance for those who know what they're doing.

5. It is on my gigs.

 

[JimmyM]

Cab IRs are EQ. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Micing a cab is exponentially more work. Picking the correct microphone, moving it around to the right angle and distance from the best sounding of however many speakers the cab has, using multiple mics if the cab has an internal crossover and a horn, and that's just the beginning. You also have to deal with bleed, the potential for added distortion by sending too high SPL at the mic, etc.
That vs a speaker simulator, whether a pedal or plugin or EQ curve.

Gross exaggeration. It is slightly more work than setting up a DI. Put the mic in the middle of the cone. Done. As for what mic to use, if a sound tech doesn't already know what mics work well on bass cabs, then they aren't very good.

 

[agedhorse]

Cheapo active DIs only exist because they can be made for less money than a passive DI using transformers. Get a Radial passive DI (ProDI or JDI) and you will be very happy.

Actually, there are very good reasons for active DI's (not cheap ones in particular).

The input impedance is much higher on an active DI. Which loads passive pickups less and reduces the negative impact that this causes.

 

[lz4005]

Gross exaggeration. It is slightly more work than setting up a DI. Put the mic in the middle of the cone. Done. As for what mic to use, if a sound tech doesn't already know what mics work well on bass cabs, then they aren't very good.

And there are a lot of not very good sound techs out there. At least in terms of getting a good bass sound out of the PA. Going DI removes several variables that can otherwise cause problems.

The last time someone mic'd my bass cab at a gig there was terrible feedback from the subs. This after I had suggested going DI in the first place. After trying to fix it for 15 minutes, delaying the start of the gig, they ended up not using the mic.

 

[MDBass]

No.

You're talking about using a giant cabinet as an EQ. Use EQ to EQ.

Re-read the post: he’s talking about using a cab sim/IR of an 810 in lieu of the untreated DI signal from the head.

 

[JRA]

but slow down mixing

?

are you doing your own mixing? is another engineer trying to EQ what you want? curious --- thanks.

 

[TNCreature]

Wow. Two (anti?) DI threads in one day.

Experience and listening to the pros has taught me that a good DI is a "necessary" tool of Recording. (Anything goes in music, but this is what I trust) You can't take away unwanted noise once it's there. But it doesn't need to be your only tool.

When I record I go from my pedalboard then DI through a beautiful tube compressor.
After tracking and any cleanup to the tracks, we send that signal back to the amp where we split the signal; one from the DI and one mic on the speaker. ( actually 3 mics, 1 near, 1 mid, 1 room). It gives me a lot of control and options for mixing.

 

[micguy]

Cheapo active DIs only exist because they can be made for less money than a passive DI using transformers.

A Reddi* is an active DI - it isn't always about being cheap. Active DI's get you out of the impedance/gain tradeoff that a transformer passive DI puts you in. If you want a DI to preserve the tone of your instrument, and active one is actually better at that.

*and Avalon, Radial Firefly, Motown, Radial J48, Jule Monique, etc....