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Bar Manager Refused to Pay Us! Now what?

#41
i dont understand how drums could ever be TOO loud in a club. if they are running through a PA, turn them off. is this club the size of a closet? regardless of what its made of, the typical distance from the stage to the bar is significant enough to keep the volume reasonable with no PA help on the drums. if he plays THAT loud (and my old drummer was a butcher, so i know), then you have no business playing in closets in the first place.

granted, the guy could likely learn to play better, but i dont think theres ever a time when a drummer hits so hard that the resulting music has to be deafening. ive been to a lot of shows where the bartender couldnt hear me because the stage was next to the bar. they still got paid. the volume could have come down. or people could shut up and accept that theres live music. you cant talk over live music.

i call BS on the barkeep. you mentioned a horn section. ive never seen a band with horns that would scare people away. we're not talking cannibal corpse here.. at very roughest, its a ska band.
 
#42
I'd TRY the LEGAL letter way as a TRY OUT. but I'd leave it after that IF they fail to pay. Unless U have a legally binding contract-even then... is it worth the $350????? OK - so EMAILS ARE a legally binding blah blah..... IS is STILL worth the $350..... how much each is that???? How many in that band?
Get the drummer to LEARN- buy some of those 1/2 brushes things- hot rods- those bamboo sticks that let the drummer still hit pretty hard , but sound softer....??!!!!!!?????

BRUSHES?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?

Seriously!! AND also seriously- I'd chalk it up to experience- THIS SHOULD SURELY show the drummer sumthin is NEEDED to be done re his lack of volume dynamics!! Sheeeeiiiitttt!! I'd LOVE to crank the ***** outta my Tube amp every gig too, but crikey!!! We just GOTTA play softer. DRUMMERS CAN do this!!! Even tho they SAY they can't!
 
#43
dgelting said:
electronic drums
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That was my first thought. And FWIW, I cannot say I fault the club manager.

We were in a venue back in the 80's and the bar owner asked us to turn down, so we did. And we did again when they said, "Still too loud." By the end I think we were so quiet you could her the pick noise from across the room. But they were happy and invited the band back a few more times.

Lesson learned though, we started earlier and ended earlier and had lower levels than we normally played with and never were asked to turn down again.

It is their venue, their rules. You are there to make them money, no other earthly reason.

Your drummer has 3 options, electronic kit, lessons are hit the highway. If you do not either pick your venues better where they don't care about the sound levels (outdoor gigs?) or fix your drummer issue, you will lose gigs again. You do not need the rep of being difficult with club owners.

Now had you done the full set and the bar was hopping and he refused to pay, well that is a different story. (That's why the band I did sound and light with changed their name to "The Taken")
 
#45
dgelting said:
Bands don't get hired to keep people in a venue or attract people to a venue. They get hired to play their music. The venue owners are hoping the first sentence will be a byproduct.
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Keep thinking like that and you'll never get anywhere. That is exactly why bands get hired...to attract and keep people in a venue. The bar owners could give two rat's asses about the band as long as people are there and drinking.

As for your second comment, it's obvious that this band ran people out of the bar. It would have been sporting to pay them, but they didn't listen to the owner and they got canned. Hey, that's the way it goes. Had people stayed and loved it, they could have turned everything up to 11 and been just fine.
 
#47
You have a basic problem. Your drummer is too loud. You can keep playing with him if you want to go deaf and go nowhere. Some drummers the only way to get them to turn down is to make them play digital drums. Or play with a different drummer.
 
#48
Fire the drummer.

Either that or he has to play much quieter. Venues will continue to give you this kind of bumpkiss if you guys are so loud. Personally, I think that if two people cant hear each other leaning over the table to have a conversation than the band is too loud.

Bands that are too loud are one of my pet peeves. Many a time I had to break out the earplugs because a band my band shared the roster with was too loud.

I dont think it was right of the bar manager to not pay you anything, but I think he had every right to be pissed... especially after asking you guys to turn down twice.

Don't ruin your reputation. Turn the F*** down.
 
#49
NorCal Dog said:
played a gig last friday night & the opening band was waaayyy toooo loud & wound up emptying the place ( way to go morons ) you could tell that they were competent musicians, but their songs just sounded like noise layered upon noise layered upon noise, absolutely zero groove :scowl: ( i wish the mgt would have pulled the plug on them before they emptied the place like they did )
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That doesn't sound too competent to me. Competent musicians know to turn down, don't have zero groove unless its purpose is anti groove, and IMO don't sound like noise, layered upon noise, layered upon noise. Unless of course its music I don't like. :p


dgelting said:
What I'm saying is that if a band gets hired to play somewhere where they're not playing for the door, they should not get pay taken away if the venue isn't as busy as they'd like to be that night.
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I kind of agree with you on this. Though they got fired for not doing what their employer wanted them to do, they still did perform for the employer which IMO warrants some pay, even if its only for a single set. However, if it wasn't stipulated in a contract then too bad so sad, count your losses, learn from it and move on.

To the OP, make sure you have something like this stipulated in the contract. This way you will be paid for what time you do play even if the club owner fires you.

BTW, I understand how important a good mix is to all of us, but maybe just maybe if the rest of you would've turned down even more despite the drummer, you may still have kept the gig and gotten paid. Then again, maybe not. Just a little something to think about.
 
#50
::::BASSIST:::: said:
Bands that are too loud are one of my pet peeves. Many a time I had to break out the earplugs because a band my band shared the roster with was too loud.
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ive only seen such a thing once. the guitarist from karate high school felt it was necessary to run stereo cabs (one for each side of the small stage) and crank his amp. he was taken out of the system immediately. it was moreso his tone that hurt.

normally, if a show is too loud, its the sound system. the FOH mixer finds it necessary to flood the room with low end and make everyone sound awful. at least thats nearly every FOH mix ive heard in 5 years in 3 different states. ONE show, it was quiet enough not to need ear plugs. and it was say anything at the orlando house of blues. i was very happy that night.

same venue, they ruined a thrice show for me because all i heard was a low hum the entire night.
 
#51
If you want to get legal cheaply, go to small claims court.

IMO, I probably wouldn't because you may get the reputation of suing club owners, even if you are legally right.

I suggest that you get the drummer to learn to play quietly. Since he's self-taught, he can most likely do it in a day or so. Maybe put some sound deadeners on top of the drums (old t-shirts?) and put a heavy pillow or something against the bass drum head.

So next week, when the drummer has his dynamics under control, call the bar back, let the manager know you can play to the sound level he wants. Then let him know you'd like to come back and finish your gig so you can get paid.

I'm just sayin...kills two birds with.....
 
#54
Munjibunga said:
Small claims court. You can't use attorneys there, so they can have 1,000 of 'em and it won't make any difference.
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Way more trouble than it's worth. Plus if you lose, and after what I'm reading it's likely they will, you can end up eating court costs as well. I think the best course of action is to forget about it.
 
#55
I don't know where you're at but, in Florida, you could sue in small claims and win easily.
I've done it several times.

A lot of states don't even allow lawyers in small claims court so, there goes his cadre of corporate big guns.

More to the point I think, in your heart of hearts, you know you where in the wrong.

Save court for when you are right. IMHO
 
#57
It costs money to take someone to court. Filing fees and summons costs. These are usually well over 100 bucks. It sounds like you would have a chance of loosing so you would be out even more money.

Just move on.
 
#58
oldscarrow said:
Personally I would go with the Balaclava and a piece if 1" water pipe, and when he learns to walk again, he might have a different attitude. Lawyers and court action over $350 doesn't seem worth it to me.
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Actually, 1" PVC wrapped steel conduit works better. Still breaks the bones, without leaving traceable marks and it is much more durable in case it is blocked by something... or so I've heard. I think I may have read that in a book...
 
#60
D.Don said:
If he has big windows, as in shop-size, it's gonna get expensive, if not, take as many as you can (I am sure there's sometime where the place is all deserted?) and then get the **** out of there (balaclava was a good one!).

Going to court for $350 sounds like a lot of trouble for little.


D.Don
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So true, and that's what's wrong with the world: justice is a pain in the ass and it's almost never worth it.
 

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