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Bar Manager Refused to Pay Us! Now what?

#21
Man.. that's a tough one alright.. I also feel you've been mishandled by the bar manager. But may I offer that the bar is supposed to be making money, coming directly from those bar partons that may-or-may-not-have-fled due to the direct result of the inability to communicate with the wait staff? Yeah, yeah, I know.. I wasn't even there..

Is there ANY chance of replacing the current drummer?? Or is there ANY chance of getting HIS apparently excessive volume 'issue' under control? Yes.. I'm referring to an compact, electronic kit . . and sure, those things certainly DO have volume controls. I'm hoping you can still get some of your money thou.
 
#22
I think taking personal responsibility as a group is in order.
Your job was to make his business more attractive to his customers. He hired you as a marketing tool to make him money. From your statements, your bands performance cost him money. He might actually have a more legitimate countersuit.
It's a $350 loss for you and probably more for him. He should put more effort into his band selection and you guys have to learn to adapt.
There are alot more expensive life lessons than this. Chalk it up and learn from it.
"If something doesn't cause you pain, you probably didn't learn anything."
 
#23
Just think about that bar owner going up to his buddies and saying "Geez, we tried this band and they were so loud and they refused to turn down twice and our place emptied out. Now they're going to sue us over $350. Oh yeah, lemme give you their names so you and all the other bars never hire them so you don't have to go through what I went through."

I'm not going to say who is right or wrong. But I think you should let this go and have "the talk" with you drummer.

I guess it's just like anything in business. "The client is always right." He was your client. :(
 
#24
"there was DEFINITELY a strong correlation between us starting to play and the bar clearing out and us taking a break and the bar filling back up. "

True that you have an email with nothing that gives him an out (so i would presume) but you could have easily turned down.

If you have catchy tunes you don't have to play loudly.

You probably don't have to get a new drummer. Just get him to play quieter. Lighter sticks.
 
#25
Just to clarify, it is *not* the job of the band to make sure the bar has a profitable night. That's the bar's business (literally).

It's only indirectly the band's problem if the bar has an off night, and the band should not be penalized if the bar fails to make as much money as they'd hoped, provided that the band does what they agreed to do (play their music and entertain the people).

If the bar hired the wrong type of band, they cannot blame anyone but themselves (or rather, their talent buyer). It's inappropriate to ask a band to change their style or their show to suit the venue. Sometimes a band and a bar just aren't a good fit. Sometimes the client is wrong.

However, that doesn't sound like what happened here. It sounds like the drummer was just playing too loudly, because he lacks dynamic control. I'd say that's a bigger problem than $350, and what you should be focusing on, rather than worrying about this money. If word spreads that you got kicked out in the middle of a gig, you're not going to be able to get hired anywhere else either, you know. This is doubly so if you threaten to sue (*no* bar will touch you if they hear about that).

Tell your drummer to take some lessons, try to get at least some of the money from this gig, and learn from your mistake here.

Hope this helps.
 
#26
newbold said:
True that you have an email with nothing that gives him an out (so i would presume) but you could have easily turned down..
Click to expand...
An email is hardly a contract, no matter how it's worded. There's no way to get a signature on it. Anyone can print something out and make claims, which is why a signature is needed on a contract.
 
#27
Rick Auricchio said:
An email is hardly a contract, no matter how it's worded. There's no way to get a signature on it. Anyone can print something out and make claims, which is why a signature is needed on a contract.
Click to expand...

Electronic signatures can be legally binding. That's why all my emails say this at the bottom:

Dave Muscato

[email protected]
(573) 424-0420 cell
(888) 424-0420 toll-free
http://www.DaveMuscato.com

This electronic mail transmission contains confidential information
intended only for the person(s) named. Any other use, distribution,
copying or disclosure is prohibited. If you received this transmission
in error, please notify me by email at [email protected] and then
destroy the message.

That this communication is in electronic form does not constitute my
consent to conduct transactions by electronic means or to use or
accept electronic records or electronic signatures for purposes of the
Uniform Electronic Transactions Act, the E-SIGN Act, or any similar
law. Contract formation in this matter shall occur only with
manually-affixed original signatures on original documents.
Click to expand...

Anyway, unless it's contested, it doesn't matter. I doubt the bar's lawyer would perjure himself to say that someone hacked their email account over $350, if they didn't just settle out of court in the first place.
 
#28
Not sure if anyone else has said this, but just find a lawyer you know to write a letter to the establishment making certain demands or saying that if they don't pay up then legal action will be taken. And if you use electronic drums I will personally travel to where you are and obliterate any sign of them.
 
#32
What's the independent variable here? The drummer. You said so, yourself, half a dozen times. Take the drummer out of the equation, and you have a happy barkeeper, happy patrons, and an otherwise happy (and paid) band. That's why I'm always cautious about drummers. They can cut you right out of some venues. Sorry, but I think you have to eat this one. Cheap lesson.
Bill
 
#33
Dave Muscato said:
Also, have one of your lawyer buddies draft you a performance agreement, so you don't have this problem again. You should *never, never, never* gig without a contract.
Click to expand...

Once again Dave comes through with a true pearl. Taking a venue to court over breach of contract leaves your band's rep in the clear (somewhat) and there also may the the bonus of punitive damages being levied- leaving no room for someone to get half a night's work out of you for free.

Also I would have the drummer try out for the band again in like a week (or whatever) and if he still can't display with some dynamics, cut him loose. That's about all you can do.
 
#34
Lots of advice here, take of it what you will.

My 2c worth is that OP learn from the experience and move on. Trying to recover partial payment is only gonna generate more bad feelings with this particular venue.
 
#35
Dave Muscato has the right advice here. Sure the bar owner should have paid you something, but getting litigious with him at this point may win you a minor, short-term victory...and a lot of long-term frustration if you should find yourselves blacklisted as a result... :eyebrow:

Start using a standard contract from now on - and make sure you specify in writing the kind of music you play and the approximate volume levels at which you typically play. Then make sure you discuss it with the venue owner or manager and obtain written approval prior to actually accepting the gig. That way, you're a lot less likely to get blind-sided from now on... :hmm:

One more thing: Your drummer could definitely stand to improve his skills, but electronic drums are not the answer. Technology is no substitute for good musicianship. Either he needs to learn good dynamic control - fast. Or you guys will just have to live with severe limitations on the kind of gigs you can accept. Or you have to find a new drummer.

MM
 
#36
I see this situation like this:

The Bar hired you guys to provide a pleasing atmosphere that attracts and keeps bar patrons there spending money.
It sounds like you guys provided the EXACT opposite result and sent the customers running for the doors. I don't think you held up your end of the deal and should have been shut down so maybe the bar could salvage the rest of the night.

If you guys were landscapers and I hired you to make my lawn shine and instead you killed my grass, I sure wouldn't pay you. It's kind of the same thing.
 

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