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Bar Manager Refused to Pay Us! Now what?

#61
Lesfunk said:
Performance agreement?
Contract?
for a $350.00 bar gig?
yeah right. Whatever you say...;)
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Yeah, right, whatever. Here in Finland that's about as much you can get if you're an semi-unknown band playing originals. For many of us the $20 you eventually end up getting per gig is important and I hope you show some respect for the bands that just don't get more. Making the contract is pretty much free so not having one is just plain stupid, no matter what the bar pays. If you can afford not getting $350 from a gig, that's fine. Of course I can too but IMO that's just stupid so I won't.

As for the original question, the big question is did the barkeeper hire A band or THE band. I'm assuming the earlier in which case it really was the band's fault - you guys should have been able to turn down, even the drummer. IMO it doesn't matter what you do, the best is of course that he learns to play quieter. Other options are rods or electric drums OR WHATEVER but if he wants to play normal drums with normal sticks he also needs to be able to play quiet. If he can't... Well, the louder he plays the less potential gig places you have.

But now before you have reached the point where you have huge posters of your band all over the town and people come see only THE band (and maybe buy a few drinks) you really should do as the "boss" aka. the barkeeper says. He's the one who's paying and you're the ones who are working for him. He says quiet, you play quiet.
 
#62
Looks like you guys need to work on your dynamics at next band practice. Sucks, but is it really worth all the trouble of taking them to court and all the legal fees? You have the proof in the emails, but if there was no legal contract signing, the courts probably cant do anything anyway. Its a hard lesson, but Id eat the loss, and just take note to never arrange to play at that bar again.
 
#67
I used to play with a certain band in Michigan about 2001. They had a drummer who was a real heavy hitter. He would end songs with a double bass kick and a double cymbol crash and literally drown out the guitar player who had a full Marshall stack. Sometimes when songs would end I would just stop playing and put my fingers in my ears because you couldn't hear me anyway. One gig he actually broke one of the steel supports that held a tom above his bass drum. But when we were in the studio with digital drums he sounded good because we had a volume control on him.

Another trick is a drum sheild.

Finally I could not stand that band so I quit
 
#70
I wasn't there but it does sound like the bar owner did try to work with you to a degree and you guys did try to comply but it seems like the drummer may have fueled his decision in the end.



Knowing what you know about the drummers versatility when it comes to volume/dynamics he should not have been on the gig to begin with.
 
#71
TooManyThinking said:
Hey guys,

Hope this is the right place for this, I'm brand new here.

CLIFF'S NOTES: Manager tells us to stop playing halfway through our set because we're too loud and incapable (mediocre drummer) of turning down, then refuses to pay us, not even prorated.

So we get an email from a bar downtown wanting us to play a 4 hour set on a Friday from 9:30 to 1:30 and agrees to pay us $350 (plus a $100 bar tab). We set up our gear and he tells us we can start as late as 10 if we want when the bar starts picking up.

A few songs in he comes over and tells us that the bartenders can't hear patrons ordering drinks and that we need to turn down. So we all turn down and bring down the horn section and vocals on the mixer and continue with the set. A few songs later he comes back and tells us he still can't hear so we turn down more. The only problem is that our drummer is self-taught and has no formal instruction, so he's a total beater and has 2 volumes: loud and very loud. Obviously there's no volume dial for the drums so the rest of the band has to match our levels to his.

Anyways, about 2 hours into the set he comes over looking furious and tells us we need to turn down or stop playing. Long story short, he refuses to pay us ANYTHING, not even half of what was agreed upon. We threatened him with legal action, telling that if he needs to either pay us or be prepared to show up in court, and he responded with "We're 15 chains strong and we have a team of lawyers," assuming we don't have the patience or know-how to follow through with this.

However, in his defense, there was DEFINITELY a strong correlation between us starting to play and the bar clearing out and us taking a break and the bar filling back up. I noticed that the two corner walls behind the bar were lined with brick, which as you know doesn't absorb any sound and so maybe that's why he perceived us to be so loud. But you could hear the band from across the street and they were incredibly loud, and somehow people could still order drinks... just like any bar with loud music I've ever been to.

And we're not some crazy death-metal punk band or anything, just a hip hop/reggae/rock/funk fusion with some catchy tunes. And we've never ONCE, ever ever EVER been asked to turn down by anybody.

So now what do we do? Between the 6 of us, we have 3 lawyers in our families that we can ask for consultation, but I was wondering if anybody here might have some personal experience with this kind of situation. We have email correspondence between this guy and myself confirming the $350 agreement we had, and we have multiple witnesses that saw him ask us to leave. Also, we're in California if that helps.

Any help at all is appreciated!!

- TooManyThinking
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The guy had a simple request for you guys to turn down.

He makes this request a couple of more times, very strongly.

This is the guy who signs the checks.

What the heck is wrong with you guys? You are getting paid to do a job that is to the satisfaction of the guy paying you.

You failed.

Fire the drummer.

Apologize to the manager.

Offer to do a free gig to make up for it.

Maybe this will help salvage your reputation and possibly get you other gigs.

Maybe not.

:D

Joe.
 
#72
AlembicPlayer said:
If we don't start running our bands like a business, there will be no band in the long haul.
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True! and if the band isn't providing a quality product (music that doesn't make people want to leave), then they are not being professional.
If a band sound like crap, THEY are the ones responsible they shouldn't get paid.
If this band can't make themselves sound good, they shouldn't be trying to charge people for their unacceptable product.

It's just business. Do a good job and you'll get paid for it.
 
#73
Pee on the drummer.

And then consider a lesson learned. You were too loud, you got some warnings, people were leaving, the drummer was still too loud, you got fired. I don't see where the club is at fault here. At least you didn't play all night and then get fired. Next time when the club asks you to lower the volume a bit I'm sure you will, or in this case, your new drummer will.

I played at a baseball game once, in the food court area before the game as people were comming in through the gates ect. We got asked to turn down a bit, so we did and finished playing got payed, watched the game, and got asked to come back again. Being asked to turn down is not unreasonable, and doing it is not that hard.
 
#74
awakefie said:
We bought one for church. The drummer didn't care for the idea at first but it has worked out nicely.

We can finally hear the rest of our praise band over the drums. It is also much more transparent than he thought it would be.
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Most drummers don't like them to start because it also throws the sound back at them that they are punishing the other musicians with. However it usually gets the point about dynamics across if the drummer's hearing isn't already thrashed at that point as they feel the brunt of what they are dealing reflected back to them.

Moral of the story, talk to the drummer about his lack of dynamics and how it cost you the gig. Discuss options about what can be done in a constructive manner in order to get more gigs.
 
#75
rockinrayduke said:
The drummer got you fired. Might want to find a one that can play with some dynamics or this will likely happen again.
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Listen to Ray....he is 100% right.


My drummer is a hitter too but he will tape his drums to deaden them up a bit if the venue requires that option. But he too is pretty much self taught and lacks the control that drummers should strive for live.

Jeff
 
#77
try to set up another gig, "telling them you fired the drummer and he was the reason" then blast them out of the building....:)
I was in a hardcore outfit in a battle of the bands at a club we were last to go on. Firsst was like 450$ and another date to play. We won by a long shot and in the process broke part of the stage. only got a 1/4 of the money and "no way in hell" a date to play again/ Not including 3 tickets while unloading gear for parking. but it was good publicity....
laughed it all off
 
#79
Judging by some of the replies here there are a bunch of younger guys posting or guys who haven't gigged alot.

You learned a valuable lesson here and it only cost you $350. You need to talk to your drummer and figure out a way to tone him down or this will happen again. If you are so loud that you are clearing out the room you need to fix this ASAP. Taking the club to court over $350 just makes you look unprofessional and whiny. It will be a big waste of everyones time.

Good luck!
Jeff
 

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