Bartolini BH2 and Ibanez bass

[Nuage420]

Okay, I did notice that they're less boomy, so that could make it appear to bring more highs and mids. When I get the Audere installed I'll wire the pickups to a outer singles/parallel/inner singles switch and see how I like the options before drilling a hole. I might eventually change out the pickups, though - not sure.

Give LeCompte a shot. His triple threats are wicked!

 

[fourstringbliss]

I just A/B'd this bass against my other two, which are equipped with USA Barts. All three basses are strung with similar sounding flats with lots present overtones (Sadowsky's and TI's). One is an alder bodied Peavey 5-string with the same Bart pickups you'd find in the older Lakland 55-02's. The other is also alder bodied p-style bass equipped with two Bart 2J Squared MM's (the same as the MM in the Lakland). The Bart Lakland (2J Squared) MM's are two of their Classic Bass humcanceling J's in an MM shell. Both other basses have an Audere preamp. Of course the pickups are in different locations, which affects the comparison. The Peavey is a very deep sounding bass and the

I haven't yet had a chance to do this side-by-side comparison and wanted to see how the BH2's in parallel stacked up. The Peavey with the MM/J combo selected sounded a bit clearer than the BTB with the BH2's, but then it has an Audere preamp and the TI's are a little sparklier than the Sads. The P-style sounded darker with all coils on (so, like double-coil humbuckers) and much clearer in any single coil mode. All in all, though, the BH2's sound good enough in with the EQ set flat, and it only takes a bit of a treble bump to get them in the same clarity ballpark as the other basses.

I wonder how different things are going to sound with the Audere preamp. I've read others who have said the stock preamp in these BH2 equipped basses sounds compressed, and I know for a fact that Audere preamps are very transparent. Really looking forward to getting the stock preamp out, fully shielding it, getting the Audere in there, and wiring the BH2's with a outer singles/parallel/inner singles switch to see how things sound.

 

[fourstringbliss]

I'm replacing the preamp on my BTB745 - here's the old one for sale in the classifieds if you're interested.

 

[fourstringbliss]

I'm working on shielding my BTB745 and getting it ready for the new preamp installation. I removed the BH2's and man are they heavy! Easily 10 oz each!

Does anyone know how much lighter Nordstrand Big Splits are?

Thanks!

 

[jefbyos]

Don't know but you can ask Nordstrand...? I had to chat with them when i replaced my Barts with Big Split, cause SRMS is not standard (tilted pups, custom string spacing...). They've been patient and helpful, we had lots of mails at first to set things right (because of some details i haven't anticipated), but when i got the pups it fitted 100% perfect !

I can say i don't regret my choice, it is exactly the sound i expected.

 

[fourstringbliss]

I recently bought a 4-band classic from Audere on July 30. I've got it installed in my BTB745 and I'm getting some hum.

Here's the setup:

• The pickups in the bass are humbuckers (so not 60 cycle hum)
• The control cavity and pickup cavities are shielded and I'm getting connectivity between the bridge and shielding
• The bridge wire is soldered to control cavity shielding and to the ground wire from the output jack
• Pickup grounds are connected to the green/white wire (the one where pickup grounds go)
• Pickup shield wires are not connected to anything
• Ground wire from preamp module is connected to a separate wire coming from the output jack ground lug

I'm getting a background hum. The hum doesn't change when I either touch the strings or don't touch the strings, so it's not a bridge ground hum (I don't think). When I adjust the treble and bass controls the hum doesn't change, I just get extra hiss from the preamp. However, when I turn the mid controls up from center the hum gets worse, and down from center makes the hum disappear.

I tried connecting the bare pickup wires to cavity ground a bit ago and it had no effect on the hum. I tried plugging the bass into a number of amps and I'm still getting the hum. My other two basses have Audere preamps and no hum, so I'm feeling like I've done something incorrectly with the connections. Could I have the wrong jack connections?

What do you think is happening and how can I fix this?

Thanks!

BTW, I have emailed Audere, but I probably won't get a response until Monday or Tuesday so I figured I'd ask here.

 

[yberwaffe]

The only thing that pops up in my mind is that you have different ground points.
Try connecting all ground wired to the same point, literally.

Have you tried another battery ?

 

[Snert]

so not 60 cycle hum

Record the bass to get the noise, then use something like Audacity, or almost all of the recording suites to look at the frequency response and tell us what it shows. I agree it might be an earth loop from a non common ground, but I've had faulty gear given to me before with descriptions like 'it hums' and it was not mains related.
It's hard to diagnose faults at a distance using only words.

 

[fourstringbliss]

The only thing that pops up in my mind is that you have different ground points.
Try connecting all ground wired to the same point, literally.

Have you tried another battery ?

Audere preamps are designed with two different ground points, which is different than other preamp designs.. There are three pickup wires - black/white for bridge hot, blue/white for neck hot, and green/white for the ground wires from the pickups. In my case I wired these pickups in parallel, so I connected the green and black pickup wires to ground (the green/white wire) and the red and white wires to hot (either the blue/white or black/white). The preamp itself connects to ground at the output jack, and the stock jack has two wires connected at that point of the jack - one connected to the preamp module and the other that you're supposed to connect to the cavity shielding and/or bridge ground wire. I soldered the bridge ground wires and the jack ground wire together at the same spot on the shielding.

I've tried connecting pickup shield wires to the green/white wire before and this causes a terrible hum that isn't affected by anything.

I will try another battery, though. I've been trying to eliminate all the simple stuff like different cables, different amps, etc.

 

[fourstringbliss]

Record the bass to get the noise, then use something like Audacity, or almost all of the recording suites to look at the frequency response and tell us what it shows. I agree it might be an earth loop from a non common ground, but I've had faulty gear given to me before with descriptions like 'it hums' and it was not mains related.
It's hard to diagnose faults at a distance using only words.

For sure, I'm saying "hum" and that could mean anything. I'll try to attach a recording later today.

What's weird for me is that the present hum isn't affected by boosting treble or bass, but seems to only be affected by boosting either mid control. Every time I've had a grounding hum or shielding hum, boosting any EQ makes it worse. I also have two other basses with Audere preamps with everything connected the exact same way and no hum of any kind. I'm suspecting something's wrong with this particular preamp module.

 

[fourstringbliss]

Is this how the coils on the BH2's arranged - parallel to each other across the strings? I know the wire colors aren't the same, I'm wondering about the coils themselves.

David from Audere thinks I'm either dealing with a grounding issue (which I'm going to investigate) or that there's something up with the pickups.

 

[fourstringbliss]

TBH, the hum isn't so bad I can't live with it until I replace these pickups with either Nordy Zen Blades or Big Splits (probably the Splits for simplicity).

I honestly don't think it's a grounding/shielding issue, but I'm biased since I did the wiring.

 

[fourstringbliss]

So, I don't think this is a grounding issue but some type of shielding issue.

I used conductive backed copper foil shielding in the control cavity and the bottoms of the pickup cavities. I didn't run the foil up the sides of the pickup cavities, but the cavities are so tight that I couldn't get the pickups back in there without catching on the foil. I used a DMM to check conductivity between the pickup cavities and the control cavity and the bridge saddles and got the "you're good to go" tone each time.

My other two basses use the same copper foil and the same brand of preamp, but they're silent.

Now, the hum doesn't go away when I touch the strings or metal, and it doesn't appear only when I touch the strings. How I rotate my body (and therefore the bass) makes a difference.

The only other thing I can think of is that both of these pickups had a bare shield wire along with the color coated coil wires. I connected those shield wires to the cavity shielding initially and got this hum. I cut the wire and the hum remained. I reconnected this wire to shielding with some foil tape (as a temporary measure) and it didn't change anything.

What do I check? Are the pickups bad somehow?

Thanks!

 

[Bad_tattoo]

Okay, I did notice that they're less boomy, so that could make it appear to bring more highs and mids. When I get the Audere installed I'll wire the pickups to a outer singles/parallel/inner singles switch and see how I like the options before drilling a hole. I might eventually change out the pickups, though - not sure.

I've got a SRMS806 (also BH2)s coming along early next month, I'm planning to do the whole modding shebang (because I always stick my fingers where I'm not supposed to), including 2 miniswitches for series/parallel/single, maybe combined pickup wiring (series/parallel, dingwall style)

I'm not sure whether inner or outer coils sound better split, guess I'll find out!
Also I might convert it to fretless eventually. I'll keep you posted if I run into noise issues along the way

So, I don't think this is a grounding issue but some type of shielding issue.

Now, the hum doesn't go away when I touch the strings or metal, and it doesn't appear only when I touch the strings. How I rotate my body (and therefore the bass) makes a difference.

The only other thing I can think of is that both of these pickups had a bare shield wire along with the color coated coil wires. I connected those shield wires to the cavity shielding initially and got this hum. I cut the wire and the hum remained.

What do I check? Are the pickups bad somehow?

Sounds to me like a local EM interference thing- Indeed a grounding issue would be 'toggleable' by touching the strings. Some pickups are more prone to interference than others, and some areas (especially in front of a computer!) are more heavy in radiation.
A suggestion- invest in a noisegate (it's not just for people like me that run 4 distortions in a row) and use a very low setting to eliminate the noise.

 

[fourstringbliss]

I've got a SRMS806 (also BH2)s coming along early next month, I'm planning to do the whole modding shebang (because I always stick my fingers where I'm not supposed to), including 2 miniswitches for series/parallel/single, maybe combined pickup wiring (series/parallel, dingwall style)

I'm not sure whether inner or outer coils sound better split, guess I'll find out!
Also I might convert it to fretless eventually. I'll keep you posted if I run into noise issues along the way



Sounds to me like a local EM interference thing- Indeed a grounding issue would be 'toggleable' by touching the strings. Some pickups are more prone to interference than others, and some areas (especially in front of a computer!) are more heavy in radiation.
A suggestion- invest in a noisegate (it's not just for people like me that run 4 distortions in a row) and use a very low setting to eliminate the noise.

Thanks for the info! I'm down to it being the pickups at this point. Shielding is pretty simple, and everything seems to be connected to everything else. I don't know how I could shield it better. I'm going to replace these pickups with Nordy's in a few months anyway, and that should settle it.

 

[sonojono]

I've got a SRMS806 (also BH2)s coming along early next month, I'm planning to do the whole modding shebang (because I always stick my fingers where I'm not supposed to), including 2 miniswitches for series/parallel/single, maybe combined pickup wiring (series/parallel, dingwall style)

I'm not sure whether inner or outer coils sound better split, guess I'll find out!
Also I might convert it to fretless eventually. I'll keep you posted if I run into noise issues along the way



Sounds to me like a local EM interference thing- Indeed a grounding issue would be 'toggleable' by touching the strings. Some pickups are more prone to interference than others, and some areas (especially in front of a computer!) are more heavy in radiation.
A suggestion- invest in a noisegate (it's not just for people like me that run 4 distortions in a row) and use a very low setting to eliminate the noise.

Why not make it simpler on yourself and add a push/pull pot for series/parallel? Just a thought, also congrats! I’m going a similar route minus the switches. Don’t like drilling extra holes on a bass

 

[Bad_tattoo]

Why not make it simpler on yourself and add a push/pull pot for series/parallel? Just a thought, also congrats! I’m going a similar route minus the switches. Don’t like drilling extra holes on a bass

4 reasons!
1: I detest p/p pots as I feel they degrade way too fast, go loose, you have to worry about turning the pot as you do the pushpulling etc.
2: 2x2 toggle switches is 4 combinations, 2x3 is 9! (I think that's quantum mechanics or something)
3: I break and fix stuff for a living so I am foolhardy when it comes to these things. I installed a 3x2 array on my combustion myself, great practice for doing a much easier version of it again on a bass 1/4th the price



4: Might just get a tech to do it; I found someone close by with a full CNC kit and repair shop who's done refretting several times, I reckon he can do a fretless job as well and just do the whole thing like a pro and not like a gorilla(me), whose main claim to drilling fame is accurately making 1000/12mm holes in concrete floors.
5: Yes I forgot to mention, I'm having it converted to fretless, yolo

 

[fourstringbliss]

Welp, I'm finished with this hum hunt. I've checked and rechecked connectivity with my DMM, completely rewired the output jack, connected the bridge grounds to the output jack ground and to shielding in a better way than before. I even rewired the BH2's in series to see if that made a difference. I'm still getting a low-level hum when I'm anywhere near my amp which gets worse when I boost either mid control, and better when I turn the bass a different direction. Touching and not touching strings makes no difference. Touching grounded metal surfaced makes no difference.

None of it makes sense outside the idea that these BH2 pickups are just more sensitive to EMI than the USA Barts that I've got in my two other basses. All three basses are shielded in the same way with the same wire and the same foil, and all three show complete connectivity with the same DMM. All three have the same Audere preamp model (other than the controls). The difference is that this BTB I'm struggling with has the BH2 pickups and the other two have USA Bart CBC split-single coil pickups in different configurations.

At some point this year I'll be swapping out the BH2's for Nordy Big Splits and calling it good. I know for sure that setup works because I had a bass 10 years ago that had the same preamp/pickup combination and it was silent.

 

[fourstringbliss]

It's a bummer because these pickups do sound good in parallel with this preamp, I just can't abide hum.

 

[fourstringbliss]

I've been using this bass with the BH2's with the same Zoom B6 settings as my other basses, which both have brighter Bart pickups and brighter strings as my BTB. Understandably these pickups have sounded darker and I've wanted to boost highs and high mids, accentuating that hum.

This afternoon I tried some of the amp models I haven't been using with the other basses because those amp models are inherently brighter, but MAN do a few of them make this bass sound GOOD. I think I'll probably still replace these pickups with Big Splits, but this is going to make it much easier to choose this bass when I play out.