Bartolini BH2 and Ibanez bass

[LeonineAlpha]

My experiences are with Mk1, not BH2, but regarding "Hum"... anyone having this kind of issue:

The series 1/2 non-american Bartolini pups are quite possibly your problem. Somehow the coils are just not perfectly balanced, and in essence its like having a J just a smidge off on the volume controls. In some environments its clean, elsewhere you notice a little EMI/RFI, and it can get really bad in the wrong places. If you have a good headphone amp it can be terrible, out loud on some amps and cabs and eq its barely noticeable.

Some pup series may be ok, and other peoples uses may never cross the "use" threshold where its a problem, but if YOU hum...

Ultimately no matter what you try, you either hum or get stuck cranking down trebble/mid frequencies, and lose the ability to really vary your tone.

I tried "everything", different preamp (ANYTHING improves over MK1 try ToneMonster or a you-assemble-Audere for low $ but fair quality choices), shielding, wiring, all helps a bit BUT: its the cheap stock pups! They just suck for hum. You will want to get quality replacements.

(Strong Opinion Alert): I feel like Ibanez and Bartolini created this mess, and continue to $ benefit from people correcting it, so I wont pay THEM to fix it... Ill buy anything but a new Bart pre/pup cause they on my grudge list cause of those Mk1. Too bad, might sound like pumpkin pie, but ill never know...

 

[fourstringbliss]

My experiences are with Mk1, not BH2, but regarding "Hum"... anyone having this kind of issue:

The series 1/2 non-american Bartolini pups are quite possibly your problem. Somehow the coils are just not perfectly balanced, and in essence its like having a J just a smidge off on the volume controls. In some environments its clean, elsewhere you notice a little EMI/RFI, and it can get really bad in the wrong places. If you have a good headphone amp it can be terrible, out loud on some amps and cabs and eq its barely noticeable.

Some pup series may be ok, and other peoples uses may never cross the "use" threshold where its a problem, but if YOU hum...

Ultimately no matter what you try, you either hum or get stuck cranking down trebble/mid frequencies, and lose the ability to really vary your tone.

I tried "everything", different preamp (ANYTHING improves over MK1 try ToneMonster or a you-assemble-Audere for low $ but fair quality choices), shielding, wiring, all helps a bit BUT: its the cheap stock pups! They just suck for hum. You will want to get quality replacements.

(Strong Opinion Alert): I feel like Ibanez and Bartolini created this mess, and continue to $ benefit from people correcting it, so I wont pay THEM to fix it... Ill buy anything but a new Bart pre/pup cause they on my grudge list cause of those Mk1. Too bad, might sound like pumpkin pie, but ill never know...

I think this is exactly what is happening here. I've gone over and over my shielding and grounding (which are not complicated projects) and everything checks out. It's got to be the pickups. I had thought to wire them outer single/parallel/inner single, but I'm sure I'd get hum on every setting because of mismatched coils.

I had thought about replacing these with Barts, but my other two basses already have them. Now my debate is between Nordstrand Big Splits and Zen Blades. Zen Blades would be more versatile because they're 4-wire and I could wire the pickups series/single/parallel but the base sound of the Splits might be better. It's down to what would sound better with Labella flats, which are the only kind I've found fit this bass.

 

[LeonineAlpha]

Thats about where Im at with my bass.

Deciding between the Nord Splits and some kind of blade or humbucker. At least the Mk1 give me an idea of the split sound (theres things I like about it) so I ordered dirt cheap humbuckers just to try out, on a slow boat from China...

After trying those, I should have an idea if I want splits, humbuckers, or something else (ie blades).

But yeah, trying to get rid of the hum on the cheap Barts, I wired all ground thru shield, all thru preamp, all thru star line seperate, nothing stopped the hum...

Unless my goal is to immediately change pickups, I wont get another bass that starts with Bart 1 or 2. Which is kinda sad cause there are some nice basses at low mid price with those, but I am shy of hum, that might not show till your in the wrong environment with those pups.

 

[LeonineAlpha]

@fourstringbliss TRY THIS FIRST!!!

(not this bit): put the cheap $15 humbuckers in, only "some" noise reduction vs korean barts, slightly different flavour of basically same bass, so they are not worse than stock barts, which is sad for B

Still too much noise, I thought I had tried "everything" but...

"across the line capacitor" !!!

Put alligator clips on the jack ground and the positive (to preamp, NOT the ring where the battery + comes in, unless u want dead batteries) then just try some random capacitor values in here...

10 nF did nothing, 100 nF OMG! noise way reduced and seemingly no substantial tone change and just a slight volume drop. I put two of those in parallel for 200nF and soldered them in. 90% of the noise is gone!

I can actually use preamp treble with only slight hiss when turned up, and an hour or two down its quiet, and this is on headphones with a very treble producing amp, thru a cab this will be silent.

I dont feel qualified to properly explain this, so read engineering forums about "across the line capacitor" but here is an ignorant opinion:

Firstly thats a sweet spot since its getting the DC power before the preamp, and its adjacent to the preamp IC.

Secondly I am guessing that $quality preamps you are paying in part for design, likely an array of caps to get different frequencies in different parts of the circuit and get "dead" silent. However, this one Cap nailed most of the noise, so vs diminishing returns for +$ this on the ToneMonster is great.

But ANYONE? why isnt this more common advice? Like along with "shielding" "bridge ground" why is "Cap the Jack" not standard experiment for noise reduction?

 

[LeonineAlpha]

Oh and Im going to add...

After rocking out LOUD a bunch...

These cheap humbuckers are an IMPROVEMENT over Korean Barts! The barts had a few nuances you couldnt actually hear in a loud mix, whereas these things sound great! The equal blend on the pickups sounds way better, though the bridge pickup solo is less distinct than before.

After capping the jack, I could even dime the treble when doing the guitar part in Kashmir, tweeter on, no audible noise!

So yeah, basses with Mk1/BH2, consider them a "mod platform". My 2004 Ibanez 505 (light, beautiful neck, tight strings) is now a dream to play and quiet too! $80 preamp (ToneMonster), a ceramic capacitor across the jack, and 2x $15 pickups... (exact size for Mk1 holes and 3 screws holes, good springs included) found em on Ebay

There is no GOOD reason the stock electronics should be so BAD, shame

 

[fourstringbliss]

I couldn't find the pickups you were talking about, but I did find these:

$28 Guyker pickups on Amazon. No way they sound like real Nordy's, but I wonder if they'd be better than what I've got?

My issue now isn't so much the noise it's that I'm getting some sort of square wavy sound at church. At home on either of my amps I get a decent sound (lacking clarity and bite) but it sounded like distorted keyboard bass there. I'm going to come in earlier next weekend to try some stuff out.

Either way I'll be replacing the BH2's in my BTB sometime this year. I just need to decide whether it's going to be Nordy Big Splits or Zen Blades.

 

[Snert]

$28 Guyker pickups on Amazon.

I looked a the 5 version, and may yet get some, and there was a review by (I think) a TBer that said they were OK, but nothing special.

 

[fourstringbliss]

I looked a the 5 version, and may yet get some, and there was a review by (I think) a TBer that said they were OK, but nothing special.

For $28 I wouldn't be expecting much, but they might be better than I currently have for the time being.

 

[LeonineAlpha]

Those $28 blades would be a great way to decide if you want the Zen or a different design by Nordstrand as an "ultimate" replacement. In the short term they will give you a different sound, and probably an improvement. Low risk gamble...

Regarding the noise, try the Cap across the Jack + to - though, alligator clip experiment different values if you have a cheap selection. EE suggest DC battery loops are antennas, and need a noise filter cap. I was amazed how well this just worked.

Like to the reduction level of "why did it take me a year to find out about this"? Why isnt this "standard" advice with a noisy preamp?

 

[LeonineAlpha]

Think about this though re Guyker...
magnets set for 19mm string spacing (I think, glanced at site measurements). Maybe the blade is contiguous under the cover? Might be ok then, still bit wonky...

Whereas the true blades and ceramic bar buckers are more flexible with different spacing and angled pickups...

Part of why I keep expressing annoyance about (my opinion of) Bartolini/Ibanez business practices...

CEO: lets license our name to a bunch of weirdly sized weirdly shaped weirdly spaced pickups that people will "weirdly" want to replace... and make sure they get in all sorts of common basses. Oh and hey! we are the only people who carry full fit options for replacement$ not our fault though!... we just took$, get royaltie$, and sell replacement$. But the only reason this all happened is cause... they are not American! Nothing to see here, move along now...
(meanwhile, Not in America) CEO: The salesmen are worried the cheaper Ibanez are too good to easily upsell models, but we would never compromise our build... Hey I will take that call from America now...

Say what you will about (for instance) McDonalds, but if they $ell you their name, they make you meet their qc or they take the name back.

 

[fourstringbliss]

Think about this though re Guyker...
magnets set for 19mm string spacing (I think, glanced at site measurements). Maybe the blade is contiguous under the cover? Might be ok then, still bit wonky...

Whereas the true blades and ceramic bar buckers are more flexible with different spacing and angled pickups...

Part of why I keep expressing annoyance about (my opinion of) Bartolini/Ibanez business practices...

CEO: lets license our name to a bunch of weirdly sized weirdly shaped weirdly spaced pickups that people will "weirdly" want to replace... and make sure they get in all sorts of common basses. Oh and hey! we are the only people who carry full fit options for replacement$ not our fault though!... we just took$, get royaltie$, and sell replacement$. But the only reason this all happened is cause... they are not American! Nothing to see here, move along now...
(meanwhile, Not in America) CEO: The salesmen are worried the cheaper Ibanez are too good to easily upsell models, but we would never compromise our build... Hey I will take that call from America now...

Say what you will about (for instance) McDonalds, but if they $ell you their name, they make you meet their qc or they take the name back.

I think I'll probably pass on the Guyker blades, but my BTB does have 19mm string spacing. One of the Amazon reviews says, "These are well made, fit perfectly, and sound decent. They are fairly low output, with a somewhat generic tone. Not as exciting as my Nordstrands though. Probably best for people with a lot of downstream effects".

I'm going to focus right now on learning more about how to set up patches on my Zoom B6. I could be wrong, but I think the amp models are set up to digitally function like analog amps. I use the Bassman amp model a lot, and have previously set up the amp part of the patch by lowering the gain and cranking the volume, then I'd set the overall unit output level at between 30% and 40%. I think I'm overdriving things a bit and these pickups don't function cleanly like that. I'm going to experiment with having amp gain and volume at moderate levels and boosting the overall unit volume. I'll bet I get cleaner tones overall.

 

[LeonineAlpha]

Re: Jack Capacitor

I can think of one reason "not standard"

In my case its great because I have active only (no passive mode) and the pickups are buffered from the massive cap.

If you had a passive mode, you would need to put the noise filter elsewhere (or lose all tone).

 

[Bad_tattoo]

It's here! Looks great, plays great after a quick setup, previous owner didn't bang it up too much, but needed cleaning, oiling and pots had to be tightened. Pretty big gap in the neck pocket and the inlays aren't set very well, but meh, minor cosmetic stuff at this price level imo.
I'll have to join the chorus of disappointment in the BH2, it's pretty ass. Very boomy, treble gets piercing easily, and the high midrange is pretty void of tone. It's got a pleasing low mid thing going on, but it kinda overshadows everything else and if you cut it out things get real thin.
There's a bit of EM noise, to me it's at a manageable level, but the +6 setting makes it ridiculous, so I've written that off. I use a lot of drives anyway so volume boosting isn't a problem.
The VM3 setting didn't really make a huge difference for me, probably because I don't really like the inherent BH2 sound, so changing the eq curves won't help much.
None of this is surprising btw, I'm a split/single coil guy, so when I learnt it was a dual coil design I was expecting it to fall short of my tastes. Maybe it sounds better with a pick?

Anyway, so I was planning to mod it myself, however my plans have met a snag:

That's one tight pocket! I probably should have anticipated it what with all the controls available
Not sure if 2 3-notch miniswitches will fit in there, and if they do I'm probably not experienced enough to rewire this labyrinth back together when it's done. I'll look around for a schematic to wire the pickups for single coil operation first; if I don't like the pickups like that either, they really have to go!

 

[Alex Masters]

I managed to fit a John East Uni-pre and two DPDT switches for coil switching in my SRMS805 - the cavity looks to be the same size. The standard Ibanez pre installation looks like a complete rats nest, TBH...

I agree with your BH2 comments - a bit dark and compressed sounding with a harsh top end (Although that's partly the BEQ3). I swapped for the Nordstrand Zen Blades and the John East Uni-Pre and it sounds absolutely great now!.

 

[Alex Masters]

I managed to fit a John East Uni-pre and two DPDT switches for coil switching in my SRMS805 - the cavity looks to be the same size. The standard Ibanez pre installation looks like a complete rats nest, TBH...

I agree with your BH2 comments - a bit dark and compressed sounding with a harsh top end (Although that's partly the BEQ3). I swapped for the Nordstrand Zen Blades and the John East Uni-Pre and it sounds absolutely great now!.

Looks like this!

 

[Bad_tattoo]

Tidy!

 

[fourstringbliss]

I agree with your BH2 comments - a bit dark and compressed sounding with a harsh top end (Although that's partly the BEQ3).

I totally agree. Muddy without definition and the top end is gross and nasally sounding.

I swapped for the Nordstrand Zen Blades and the John East Uni-Pre and it sounds absolutely great now!.

I've been debating about whether to install Zen Blades or Big Rigs. Originally I thought I'd go with Big Splits, but I'm not sure anymore. Whichever pickups I choose need to get along with Labella flatwounds - for whatever reason this bass needs strings that have a winding length right around 38". The distance from the nut and the B-string post is pretty small.

 

[Mr_McBride]

Hey guys! I've owned Ibanez basses with the Bartolini pickups and never thought they sounded all that great. The BH2's are the best sounding, IMO, but still sound somewhat compressed and lacking top end in my BTB846SC. I performed the +6 db "mod" and yea it got louder, but still sounds the same. So I went poking around and discovered that there in another output on the end of the PCB labeled "BEQ3". I tried it out, and I really think it opened up the sonics of these pickups! I really enjoy playing and listening to this bass now! But, to be sure I'm not experiencing placebo, I recorded a bit of each so you guys can tell me if there is really any difference.

Vocaroo | Online voice recorder

I play a few lines with the preamp set with only the +6db "mod" and then repeat the same lines with the beq3 "mod". Is there more treble in the second part? I feel like the preamp sounds better in this mode as well. Much less harsh and more articulate.

This ^^^.

I have a BTB845 that was made in 2022 and it was wired incorrectly. By that I mean that the mid toggle was wired to the VM3 connector instead of the BEQ3 connector. I made the change and it improved the tone quite a bit.

I'll gig it few more times, but I'll probably end up replace the pups and preamp. I am a Bartonlini fanboy. I have another bass (anb205) that has the American-made Bartolini pre & pups and it sounds amazing, as it should since it was designed by one of the best bass players alive today.

 

[Yahboy]

Oh and Im going to add...

After rocking out LOUD a bunch...

These cheap humbuckers are an IMPROVEMENT over Korean Barts! The barts had a few nuances you couldnt actually hear in a loud mix, whereas these things sound great! The equal blend on the pickups sounds way better, though the bridge pickup solo is less distinct than before.

After capping the jack, I could even dime the treble when doing the guitar part in Kashmir, tweeter on, no audible noise!

So yeah, basses with Mk1/BH2, consider them a "mod platform". My 2004 Ibanez 505 (light, beautiful neck, tight strings) is now a dream to play and quiet too! $80 preamp (ToneMonster), a ceramic capacitor across the jack, and 2x $15 pickups... (exact size for Mk1 holes and 3 screws holes, good springs included) found em on Ebay

There is no GOOD reason the stock electronics should be so BAD, shame

View attachment 5171149

Aliexpress

 

[c3powil]

Well, the good news is the new T1 pickups Ibanez are producing sound great. Got rid of my BTB a while back, but picked up one of the new BTB806MS basses. Excellent range of tones. A little sterile sounding, but that really is what the modern metal oriented basses are aiming for. This bass could sound great for gospel, too. I have replaced my old Peavey Cirrus 6 project with the MS.

I like the T1's more than the Nordstrand Big Singles in another BTB I owned.