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Bartolini BH2 and Ibanez bass

#101
c3powil said:
Hey guys! I've owned Ibanez basses with the Bartolini pickups and never thought they sounded all that great. The BH2's are the best sounding, IMO, but still sound somewhat compressed and lacking top end in my BTB846SC. I performed the +6 db "mod" and yea it got louder, but still sounds the same. So I went poking around and discovered that there in another output on the end of the PCB labeled "BEQ3". I tried it out, and I really think it opened up the sonics of these pickups! I really enjoy playing and listening to this bass now! But, to be sure I'm not experiencing placebo, I recorded a bit of each so you guys can tell me if there is really any difference.

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I play a few lines with the preamp set with only the +6db "mod" and then repeat the same lines with the beq3 "mod". Is there more treble in the second part? I feel like the preamp sounds better in this mode as well. Much less harsh and more articulate.
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Yeah, I just did the beq3 mod on my EHB, and I prefer it. For me, flat on the vm3 was fine, but I just couldn't get musical results from twiddling knobs on the vm3, the beq3 output made the knobs do things I didn't hate the sound of. The +6db isn't for me, but it's good to know it's there.

Honestly, the sound of the Barts passive is pretty good for me. My only BG for 20 years was a passive Warwick with a similar pup (probably a BH1?), and I can look at this EHB in passive mode as a more versatile, much more comfortable, version of that sound. The beq3 makes the bass sound completely different, which to me sounds better than what I perceive as an unnatural manipulation of a passive tone that's pretty familiar to me.
 
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#102
BarfanyShart said:
Yeah, I just did the beq3 mod on my EHB, and I prefer it. For me, flat on the vm3 was fine, but I just couldn't get musical results from twiddling knobs on the vm3, the beq3 output made the knobs do things I didn't hate the sound of. The +6db isn't for me, but it's good to know it's there.

Honestly, the sound of the Barts passive is pretty good for me. My only BG for 20 years was a passive Warwick with a similar pup (probably a BH1?), and I can look at this EHB in passive mode as a more versatile, much more comfortable, version of that sound. The beq3 makes the bass sound completely different, which to me sounds better than what I perceive as an unnatural manipulation of a passive tone that's pretty familiar to me.
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That's a better explanation of what I'm feeling. Good to know someone else feels like its a positive change. Maybe with the EQ set flat, there really isn't much difference... but I feel like there is a bit more treble, or a higher frequency of treble. I might try to record more with +6db and without, BEQ3 vs VM3.
 
#103
c3powil said:
That's a better explanation of what I'm feeling. Good to know someone else feels like its a positive change. Maybe with the EQ set flat, there really isn't much difference... but I feel like there is a bit more treble, or a higher frequency of treble. I might try to record more with +6db and without, BEQ3 vs VM3.
Click to expand...

My SR500e already uses the BEQ3 voicing so going to VM3 was a definite downgrade. I love my bass. I have been going to different guitar shops for the better part of 6 months. I have played truly expensive guitars and cheap ones and none come close to how comfortable my SR500e plays. If I wanted to play the kind of music that uses a fat low end with a bit of shimmer ontop, this would be amazing. It just doesnt have the mid range like I am looking for. I tend to write more rock/metal type of bass playing with alot of open drop D or drop C.

So I did end up buying the Nordstrand Zen Blades. If I swap out the onboard preamp for the Darkglass Tone Pod, I will have an extra 3 way switch. I was thinking about wiring it to parallel and series. I will at least install the new pickups by themselves first. I may also record using the BH2s and play the same thing with the same settings with the Nordstrand Zen Blades. Then I will post those here for others to check out the difference.
 
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#104
RenderBroken said:
My SR500e already uses the BEQ3 voicing so going to VM3 was a definite downgrade. I love my bass. I have been going to different guitar shops for the better part of 6 months. I have played truly expensive guitars and cheap ones and none come close to how comfortable my SR500e plays. If I wanted to play the kind of music that uses a fat low end with a bit of shimmer ontop, this would be amazing. It just doesnt have the mid range like I am looking for. I tend to write more rock/metal type of bass playing with alot of open drop D or drop C.

So I did end up buying the Nordstrand Zen Blades. If I swap out the onboard preamp for the Darkglass Tone Pod, I will have an extra 3 way switch. I was thinking about wiring it to parallel and series. I will at least install the new pickups by themselves first. I may also record using the BH2s and play the same thing with the same settings with the Nordstrand Zen Blades. Then I will post those here for others to check out the difference.
Click to expand...

Nice! I feel you on that. I will be eager to see how they compare. I owned a SR506 for a while with the old BH1 pickups and preamp, and I feel like I felt similarly to how you feel with this one.
 
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#106
c3powil said:
Nice! I feel you on that. I will be eager to see how they compare. I owned a SR506 for a while with the old BH1 pickups and preamp, and I feel like I felt similarly to how you feel with this one.
Click to expand...

The Nordstrand Zen Blades should be in tomorrow. I am looking to install them asap. Then I will record DI signal with no processing. Just flat EQ, etc. I am most interested in looking at the spectrum profile.
 
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#107
So, I am dumb and did not remember to record a DI of the BH2s to compare against the Nordstrand Zen Blades. I do apologize lol. But I have some definitive points to outline.

For starters the BH2s didnt sound terrible. They just didnt have the mid range or as much presence as I was wanting. When I would record a DI, the low end was always the part that peaked the highest. This is understandable. But the Peak would be around -24DB while the midrange (400Hz to 1KHz) would sit around -48DB. That is near half the loudness of the low-end. While at about 1.5KHz would sit about -36DB. So, I would have to turn down the guitar as a whole so I wouldn't clip. If I didnt turn down the signal going in, I could try to cut the low end either using the knob on the guitar's EQ or through EQ in my DAW. But then the bass would sound too thin. So when I did turn my signal down, my mids would be even lower than -48DB so I would have to boost them. When you start boosting past what the pickups generate naturally, you start to create harsh resonances. So you are just chasing your tail boosting wide with narrow cuts of certain harsh freqs.

Now to the fun part, I installed the Nordstrand Zen Blades and they are amazing. The best way to describe them using a Spectrum graph is that it is very even. The low end peaks a little higher (about 4 to 6 DB difference) than mids but about the same height as my highs. They sound very clear and present. I now have much more creative control over the sound I want. If I want more low end, I can boost it now on the guitar when I actually could only cut it before. I can boost my mids even more and they no longer generate a harsh ringing resonance on certain notes. (7th fret on the G string for example)

In conclusion, I am pretty happy with the 230USD investment. I will be looking at possibly installing the Darkglass Tone Pod next. But I wanted to play more with just the pickups to get a better feel. If I do go with the Darkglass Tone Pod, I will have a 3 way toggle switch available and may wire it fore changing between series and parrallel. I hope this short essay gives a clearer picture as the problem I see with the BH2s.

Thanks guys for the suggestions/wire mappings in this thread.

IMG20220406191817.jpg
 
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#109
yberwaffe said:
dB is a logaritmic scale, not linear.
-48 dB is not half of -24dB.
Can you post a screenshot of your measurement ?
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You are correct. I should have been a bit more clear. I meant in relation to the spectrum graph I was using to establish a baseline. Let
yberwaffe said:
dB is a logaritmic scale, not linear.
-48 dB is not half of -24dB.
Can you post a screenshot of your measurement ?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't think I have one of before with the BH2s. I havent grabbed one with the Nordstrands either, though I planned on doing more testing after work today. If I was thinking, I would have grabbed one of the BH2s with flat EQ and a DI recording. Then did the same with the new pickups. I may have a DI recording I had done a long time ago and will try to dig for it.
 
#110
yberwaffe said:
dB is a logaritmic scale, not linear.
-48 dB is not half of -24dB.
Can you post a screenshot of your measurement ?
Click to expand...


So here is a pic of the new pickups. I am playing a riff on the d2 string. The same riff I have used to evaluate the pickups each time. I am glad I went back to double check my numbers and thr BH2s were even worse than I first mentioned. While my low end would peak around -24dB, my mids (400Hz to about 800Hz) would actually sit around -72dB. My highs (~1.5Kz) would peak around -46dB.

If I do go ahead with the Darkglass Tone Pod, I will reconnect the BH2s first to do a proper comparison. Again, I am bummed I was in toouch of a hurry to do the swap.
 

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#112
Guys

Years after opening the thread, i FINALLY made the move and upgraded from stock barts, to Nordstrands Big Split. I had a few mails with their team during months (they were arriving in spams), so to give em the specs for tailor-made them for my Iba... Nor cheap i myst say. But once received, they fit PERFECTLY and mounting went in minutes :)

20220723_100517.jpg


I am rediscovering my bass entirely. It goes from muddy and bassy sound, to something at last open-sounding and reasonably growly/agressive... Which is what i was after.

Now, time to play and make this beast mine !
 
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#113
Very cool. I may upgrade one day, but I am please with the sound I'm getting from my stock Barts at the moment. Let's hope it stays that way. The bigger issue I'm finding with my BTB846SC is that the truss rod is impossible to adjust any further with a normal hex wrench. The cutout for the truss at the bottom of the neck isn't wide enough to get the hex tool in at an angle that allows me to turn it further. I may try bending the hex tool,
 
#114
c3powil said:
Very cool. I may upgrade one day, but I am please with the sound I'm getting from my stock Barts at the moment. Let's hope it stays that way. The bigger issue I'm finding with my BTB846SC is that the truss rod is impossible to adjust any further with a normal hex wrench. The cutout for the truss at the bottom of the neck isn't wide enough to get the hex tool in at an angle that allows me to turn it further. I may try bending the hex tool,
Click to expand...

That's surprising - are you saying that when you turn the hex key as far as you can clockwise in the truss rod cut-out, you can't engage it with the truss rod in the next position, i.e. 60 degrees anticlockwise?. You may be able to use a ball-end T handle hex driver, depending on how far below the top the truss rod hex nut is
 
#115
Alex Masters said:
That's surprising - are you saying that when you turn the hex key as far as you can clockwise in the truss rod cut-out, you can't engage it with the truss rod in the next position, i.e. 60 degrees anticlockwise?. You may be able to use a ball-end T handle hex driver, depending on how far below the top the truss rod hex nut is
Click to expand...

Exactly! There's just not enough space in the cutout for the full travel required. I tried using the long end of the hex tool, but there is not enough depth at the end of the cutout to get the correct angle. The neck is pretty straight ad it is, so not a huge issue, but I wish I could get it perfect.
 
#116
c3powil said:
Exactly! There's just not enough space in the cutout for the full travel required. I tried using the long end of the hex tool, but there is not enough depth at the end of the cutout to get the correct angle. The neck is pretty straight ad it is, so not a huge issue, but I wish I could get it perfect.
Click to expand...

Try something like this, maybe? The 'ball' end of the hex driver means it doesn't need to be perpendicular to the truss rod nut.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starrett-1...le+hex+key+set+ball+end&qid=1659365994&sr=8-6
 
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