Bass Amp suggestions

[Zooberwerx]

I have the Blackstar Unity Bass U30. It's a nice amp but at 30 watts it gets lost in the crowd easily. Blackstar has a powered extension cab that I can plug into it. It has one 15" speaker and delivers 250W, but I'm concerned about not having enough horsepower for down the road AND it weighs 43 pounds which is more than I want to lug into and out of practice every week. Don't want to sink another 450$ into a solution that won't work for me longer term.

So you don't have the Blackstar extension?

Riis

 

[Daddylouc]

So you don't have the Blackstar extension?

Riis

Right; do not have the extension.

 

[Daddylouc]

I hope you update the post in the future with pics of what you got and your initial impressions! I wish I had a good excuse to get a new amp. I have no need.

Will do

 

[Zooberwerx]

Right; do not have the extension.

Well, you don't want to show up with just a 30 watt bedroom amp and I think it unwise to buy anything until you have a better feel for what's required. Any chance you can beg, borrow, or rent an amp for the encounter? Just from the sound of things, I doubt a 15" Hartke kick-back will buoy you for the duration. You want small, light, loud, and within your budget...I have something that fits the bill right next to my magic unicorn. Some alternatives:

*Powered cab 2 x 12 or larger. Use your BUB as the master / preamp.

*Passive cab and power amp but we may be adding weight depending on the hardware. Again, use the BUB.

*Integrated 2 x 12 combo. As I understand it, there are some lighter weight offerings (neo drivers, etc) but be prepared to step beyond your $800 budget.

Disclaimer: the 2 x 12 is a quasi-arbitrary configuration but one which I would consider a minimum for double-duty as a rehearsal and live gig rig. What does your local second-hand market look like?

Edit: Here's a powered 500 watt 2 x 12 that gently exceeds your budget. Your BUB has an XLR "Cabinet Link" which should work with the GK...but I would certainly confer with those-in-the-know for verification. Weight comes in at ~40 lbs which makes it really attractive for us old guys.

Gallien-Krueger 212MBP 2x12" 500-Watt Powered Bass Cabinet with Horn

Riis

 

[Daddylouc]

With 3 guitar player, it’s doubtful you are going to hear the fan...LOL.

From the review I read, it sounded like the fan noise was coming through the speaker

 

[Daddylouc]

I played a lot of that same type of mix though my group was two guitars, keys, drums and me. I'd suggest getting separate head and cabs so you can upgrade as needed without having to re-buy another full combo to get either better speakers or a more powerful amp.

First things first, a single 115 combo is NOT going to cut it for what you are describing. Been there, done that, was totally buried!

If you're going to look at combos, don't look at any that are rated below 500-watts or you'll end up finding yourself looking at the 500-watt ones soon after you've already bought the 200 or 300-watt ones because you'll need it for the larger venues. Most (not all) combos have internal speakers that are rated at 8 ohms and amps that have a minimum ohm load of 4 ohms. At 8 ohms, those amps put out half or slightly more than half of what they put out at 4 ohms.

For example the Fender Rumble 500 is rated at 500-watts rms into 4 ohms. But it doesn't deliver 500-watts as-is. It's 210 speaker configuration is 8 ohms. Instead of getting 500-watts out of that your are getting 300-watts rms into its internal speakers. That's actually pretty good, some combos would put out 250 to 275 watts into 8 ohms. Depending on how loud your guitarists are, that 300 watts is usually enough for small and medium-sized venues. But to get all 500-watts from that amp in the combo, you have to add another Rumble 8 ohm 210 cab to it. And that's not a bad set-up. If you are running 500-watts into a 410 configuration (two 210 cabs) you should be able to play most venues without FOH support.

There's a saying that goes around TB, which is a bit of a classic and very true, "High Power, Lightweight, inexpensive - choose any two." Unless you find some really crazy deals on used gear, you are not going to get all of that between $500 and $800. By the time you add the second cabinet to that Rumble, you will have much more than 35-lbs all together. The combo is 36½-lbs by itself and the second cabinet is another 39-lbs. That's really not bad though because the combo will work by itself for small and most medium-sized clubs though you will definitely want the extra power and speakers for the larger medium-sized and all the large venues.

As far as weight goes, the amps themselves are not the problem. With class D amps, you can get 800-watt amps such as the DNA-800 (I am a DNA Endorsing Artist), that weigh under 5-lbs. DNA-800 is 4.8-lbs. Most of the major Bass brands also have 800-watt Class D amps and like the DNA one, most of those are ~$799 new (always cheeper for used gear of course). But the weight of the speakers is going to add a lot of weight. It takes a big magnet to produce those low bass frequencies and a very solidly built cabinet to keep from shaking apart in a few years from all that vibration.

There's also a very nice 500-watt Eden Class D amp, the TN501, that weighs 5.3-lbs. I have its younger brother the TN226 which is a 226-watt amp. I specifically use it for a small venue that we used to play a lot. I pair that with a single Eden EX-112 cab and it was enough for that venue. I use my big Eden amp with my other cabs for other venues...wish I had purchased the TN501 instead of the TN226, but bought it used from a friend and got a good price on it.

It has the same warm Eden sound that my big Eden hybrid amp has even though it doesn't have a hybrid preamp. If I'd expected to use it more places, I would have bought the 500-watt version and 8 ohm speakers instead of 4 ohm. I bought the 4 ohm because I was only going to use it at that one place but the first night I played through it, I liked it so much I bought a second one. I used the two EX-112 cabs with my big Eden amp for medium-sized venues for about a year until I bought my DNS-210.

I personally use a DNS-210 cab (by DNA) for ALL of my indoor venues now and reserve my DNS-410 for outdoor and festival venues. But my DNS-210 cab is pretty unusual. It handles 700-watts rms, both thermally and mechanically, and it will produce a maximum SPL of 134db. That's beyond the threshold of pain and causes immediate hearing damage though, so you wouldn't want to be anywhere near it at those levels. And the older Eden WT500/800 amp I have bridges into 8 ohms at 800-watts. So if I run my amp bridged at 800-watts into it most of the way up, I could hit that level if I needed to. But I rarely run my master on my 800-watt amp above 10 o'clock. I don't want to be anywhere near that amp/speaker set up with it hitting 134db.

That DNS-210 weighs 52-lbs which isn't as heavy as the Eden 210 cabs that David designed, but it's still not very light, and it's also not very cheap. Street price runs around $900 - $969 new although you can sometimes find used around $600. A DNA-800 amp and DNS-210 cab together would weigh just under 57-lbs and handles all my indoor venues - small, medium, and large. It would also run you around $1,700 new. You might be able to put them together a used set for a little over $1100 or $1200 but that's more than a little bit over your budget.

So realistically for the near future, I'd suggest you look at class D amps of 500-watts or more along with a 210 cabinet. Add either a 210 cabinet or a 410 cabinet down the road. That way a 210 cab will cover your small and medium venues, the 410 cabinet with your 500-watt amp will cover the large venues. If you start playing outdoor venues or festivals, then you'll probably need to go up to an 800-watt amp, but with both a 210 and a 410 cab making a defacto 610 speaker system with an 800-watt amp driving it, you should be fine.

I came across a used Traynor 500 bass head in a local store and they're asking $250 for it. This would give me ability to get a decent cabinet, but don't know how to best match head to cabinet. Any advice?

Here's some info on it: SB500H – Traynor Amps

 

[Daddylouc]

Well, you don't want to show up with just a 30 watt bedroom amp and I think it unwise to buy anything until you have a better feel for what's required. Any chance you can beg, borrow, or rent an amp for the encounter? Just from the sound of things, I doubt a 15" Hartke kick-back will buoy you for the duration. You want small, light, loud, and within your budget...I have something that fits the bill right next to my magic unicorn. Some alternatives:

*Powered cab 2 x 12 or larger. Use your BUB as the master / preamp.

*Passive cab and power amp but we may be adding weight depending on the hardware. Again, use the BUB.

*Integrated 2 x 12 combo. As I understand it, there are some lighter weight offerings (neo drivers, etc) but be prepared to step beyond your $800 budget.

Disclaimer: the 2 x 12 is a quasi-arbitrary configuration but one which I would consider a minimum for double-duty as a rehearsal and live gig rig. What does your local second-hand market look like?

Edit: Here's a powered 500 watt 2 x 12 that gently exceeds your budget. Your BUB has an XLR "Cabinet Link" which should work with the GK...but I would certainly confer with those-in-the-know for verification. Weight comes in at ~40 lbs which makes it really attractive for us old guys.

Gallien-Krueger 212MBP 2x12" 500-Watt Powered Bass Cabinet with Horn

Riis

I like this Blackstar bass head (Unity U700) but I don't like the Unity cabinets because they're heavy SOB's. I'm not sure how to match a cabinet to it though. Any thoughts about a lightweight cabinet that would go with this for somewhere in the $400-$500 range?

Unity Elite Bass Series Amps | Blackstar Amplification

 

[Zooberwerx]

I like this Blackstar bass head (Unity U700) but I don't like the Unity cabinets because they're heavy SOB's. I'm not sure how to match a cabinet to it though. Any thoughts about a lightweight cabinet that would go with this for somewhere in the $400-$500 range?

Unity Elite Bass Series Amps | Blackstar Amplification

I saw your post on the Traynor 500 for $250...good price if there's no issues and leaves you some folding cash for a proper enclosure. FWIW, the Traynor does 500 watts at 4 ohm and probably ~300 @ 8 ohm. I'd look for something with a 400+ watt rating and bigger than a 2 x 10.

The Blackstar looks cool (...apparently you're a fan or have stock in the company) but will set you back 6 bills. We're reaching the fringe of your budget.

Edit: I saw these on Sweetwater and thought they looked pretty neat plus they meet your budget and weight constraints. Buy 2 and use the modularity to your advantage. It would be a great match for the Traynor with a total lay-out of $750.

TC Electronic BC208 2x8" 200-Watt Bass Cabinet

Riis

 

[dbsfgyd1]

From the review I read, it sounded like the fan noise was coming through the speaker

Yup, that’s a no good.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I came across a used Traynor 500 bass head in a local store and they're asking $250 for it. This would give me ability to get a decent cabinet, but don't know how to best match head to cabinet. Any advice?

Here's some info on it: SB500H – Traynor Amps

Find out how many watts rms the head will produce at 8 ohms and then buy a cab that will handle that many watts or very close to it. Looks like it will be 250 to 275-watt rms although the manual doesn't specify. For a single cabinet, something that will handle at least 250-watts should be fine. A 200-watt cabinet might be OK if you can avoid the urge of turning it up to get just a little louder, but 250-watt cabinet should do the job.

I'd suggest a 210 cabinet. Eden makes a nice one in their E-series cabs that is much less expensive than their top-of-the-line D-series That would be an Eden EX-210-8 ("-8" is for 8 ohm). A cabinet that handles more is fine up to about 400-watts. Unless you know that the sensitivity of the cabinet is good (~100db at 1W/1M) I wouldn't go above that. Some of the higher power-handling cabs are less sensitive and it takes significantly more power to make them loud than some lower power-handling cabs so although it appears to be an advantage, it may not be.

Bad news when comparing sensitivity is that there is not a standard rating test for it. Most do a 1KHz frequency to test it but not all. And we play a lot more than 1KHz frequencies. Mesa is about the only one I know of that tests sensitivities at multiple frequencies and then publishes the average. Thanks to @agedhorse for insisting upon that. His ratings truly are real world ratings you can expect to get. I'm an Endorser for DNA (David Nordschow Amplification) and David was never comfortable with the "test one frequency and publish that" method even with his Eden cabs. So now, he just publishes the maximum SPL that the cab can produce, because that is a real world measurement. Of course if you have the $$ I believe you can't do any better than the DNA's DNS-210 cab.

I would suggest that when you are considering cabs, bring your bass and the head with you to try it out if at all possible. After a short test, it should become clear whether or not that cab is a good choice for your head.

 

[Camaro69]

I'd seriously consider that Traynor if you can find a few good cabs, or even start with 1 2x10

 

[Daddylouc]

I have a CMD 121p (12”) combo, and the extension NY 121 cabinet. It’s really quite a beast! I’ve also tried the CMD102 combo (2x10”) at a blues jam a few times. It was fed into a massive PA, but that experience kinda sold me on Markbass.

I’ve found over the years that I can make just about any brand of amp work for me, so long as the specs and features are what I need. So I advocate to not get too hung up on brands. Most amps will “do the job” if those criteria are met. The baked-in sound is there, but it’s a small variable. best to taste-test if you can, but not the end-all, be-all.

Some of your decision may revolve around how flexible your band mates are. If you talk about reasonable volume levels, a 210* should be fine for rehearsals. (And gigs with a PA line, frankly.) If they wanna go nuts at rehearsal, and play lots of DIY “vocals only in the PA” shows- then 2x210 would be the way to go.

And subsequently, your budget comfort level will help you decide too. If you find a Markbass 102 (or 151) combo used for $800, and don’t mind waiting/ spending more on a cab later if needed- sure, go for it! If you wanna buy new, get rolling ASAP- Rumble 500 will certainly do the job.

*I chose 12” speakers because my bands are pretty low volume. I think a 210 or 115 is a better “all-purpose” choice

all IMHO, of course

I went to GC today and tried out the Markbass CMD 102P. That thing was a beast - it was great for shaping the tone and it was rattling the walls in the store with clean sound. It made me think that the $1200 price would be worth the extra cash. The one issue was it was a little on the big/awkward side for a combo amp and I couldn't see me carrying into practice each week. Instead, I'm very close to ordering the Markbass Traveler 102P (2 x 10) and the Little Mark 800 Head because they have a Black Friday sale on the bass head ($200 off). This would give me a lighter, less awkward setup with the power I need at about the same price - and I'd still have room to grow another cab down the road.

 

[CallMeAl]

I went to GC today and tried out the Markbass CMD 102P. That thing was a beast - it was great for shaping the tone and it was rattling the walls in the store with clean sound. It made me think that the $1200 price would be worth the extra cash. The one issue was it was a little on the big/awkward side for a combo amp and I couldn't see me carrying into practice each week. Instead, I'm very close to ordering the Markbass Traveler 102P (2 x 10) and the Little Mark 800 Head because they have a Black Friday sale on the bass head ($200 off). This would give me a lighter, less awkward setup with the power I need at about the same price - and I'd still have room to grow another cab down the road.

Sounds like a great plan! I wasn’t trying to talk you out of Markbass, just trying to be realistic with that budget you posted. If you’re willing to push that budget, AND you tried the Markbass and liked it- you should be very happy with it

 

[Daddylouc]

I'd seriously consider that Traynor if you can find a few good cabs, or even start with 1 2x10

Jeesh, I know. It is a good deal and the more I read about it, the better it looks. I was leaning towards a Markbass set up (see previous post), however, I'm wondering what I could get for the same amount of money if I went with the Traynor. I could probably spend $900 - $1000 at the on cab setup for the same amount of cash as the MB setup. I wouldn't be able to sample anything in my area though - that's the thing. I'd need to buy on blind faith

 

[Camaro69]

Jeesh, I know. It is a good deal and the more I read about it, the better it looks. I was leaning towards a Markbass set up (see previous post), however, I'm wondering what I could get for the same amount of money if I went with the Traynor. I could probably spend $900 - $1000 at the on cab setup for the same amount of cash as the MB setup. I wouldn't be able to sample anything in my area though - that's the thing. I'd need to buy on blind faith

Yes, completely understood

Optimally testing that Traynor with a cab is the best way to tell

I had occasion to buy a new bass yesterday.
They didn't have any of my preferred brand of amps (Ampeg)
They did have one of the other popular brands mentioned here, and the Mark bass
I tried the bass through both
I would no have bought it through one, but the Markbass sold it
I believe it was a Marcus Miller model 210.

Consider amp tone like a flavor, each person needs to experience what they are going to use

 

[baddarryl]

Thanks! The Ampeg is a bit too heavy (50) for me to lug into and out of the practice area. I was hoping I could one-trip it into our practice sessions. The Ashdown is a consideration though. I found one video on it. Just wondering if anyone here might have experience with it?

Ashdown is top notch gear. Can't go wrong.

 

[Daddylouc]

Okay. Last call for advice on this issue. I appreciate all the wisdom from everybody. I decided to spend more money seeing how I could only choose two out of the three system variables (low weight, high power, and low price).

I was on the verge of ordering the Markbass Traveler cab (2x10) and the 800W Little Mark head from GC, but decided to take a trip today to a small, independent music store in my area and sample a Quilter amp system that they had there. It consists of a Quilter Bass Block 802 head (800W) and two, one-speaker cabinets: a Quilter BD12 and a BD10 (400W each). It didn't have the same punch as the Markbass system, but it sounded great and seems like it had plenty enough horsepower. The BD12 cab weighs 37 pounds but its a one-hander to carry and I believe it would be enough to carry me through our practice sessions. I could then stack both cabinets for more power when we play out. Also, the notion of supporting a small, independent store, as opposed to a big box dealer, seems attractive to me.

Here's an article I found on the system: https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/30004-Quilter-Bass-Block-802-and-BassDock-12-bass-amp-review

The one thing that bothered me about the system was that the owner of the store had me turn up the master to full and work the volume with the gain knob. Given, I was shaking the floors and walls at about 50%, I kind of wondered why turning the master all the way up was recommended.

Anyone have any experience with the Quilter system? Appreciate any thoughts as well!

 

[Zooberwerx]

Okay. Last call for advice on this issue. I appreciate all the wisdom from everybody. I decided to spend more money seeing how I could only choose two out of the three system variables (low weight, high power, and low price).

I was on the verge of ordering the Markbass Traveler cab (2x10) and the 800W Little Mark head from GC, but decided to take a trip today to a small, independent music store in my area and sample a Quilter amp system that they had there. It consists of a Quilter Bass Block 802 head (800W) and two, one-speaker cabinets: a Quilter BD12 and a BD10 (400W each). It didn't have the same punch as the Markbass system, but it sounded great and seems like it had plenty enough horsepower. The BD12 cab weighs 37 pounds but its a one-hander to carry and I believe it would be enough to carry me through our practice sessions. I could then stack both cabinets for more power when we play out. Also, the notion of supporting a small, independent store, as opposed to a big box dealer, seems attractive to me.

Here's an article I found on the system: https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/30004-Quilter-Bass-Block-802-and-BassDock-12-bass-amp-review

The one thing that bothered me about the system was that the owner of the store had me turn up the master to full and work the volume with the gain knob. Given, I was shaking the floors and walls at about 50%, I kind of wondered why turning the master all the way up was recommended.

Anyone have any experience with the Quilter system? Appreciate any thoughts as well!

Well, there goes your budget but you've apparently given the project a lot of thought...weight looks good, too!

I call shenanigans on the "control the volume via gain" approach. I attached the manual below.

Riis

 

[Daddylouc]

So, here's what I ended up with. I purchased the Quilter system - the Quilter 802 Bass Block head (weighs about 4 lbs.), the 1x10 speaker cab (31 lbs.), and the 1x12 speaker cab (37 lbs.). I can bring the 10" cab when I practice with the group because it has plenty enough power. I have the flexibility to use the 12" cab or the entire system for playing out. The head is 800W and each cab is 400. One nice feature is that the head can be secured to the back of either cabinet for ease in transport. I spent about a grand more than I originally wanted to spend, but I have something that'll keep me happy for a long while. (Thank you finance gods!) I purchased from a local, independent store so I feel good about not going to a big-box store and instead supported the little guy. He knocked off a hundred bucks and threw in two nice cables.

Appreciate all the dialogue and people sharing their experience in this thread! I think if I went the direction I originally wanted to go, I would have ended up with a combo unit that wouldn't sustain me longer term. This, I think will!!

 

[dave64o]

Whoa! That bass is pretty!

Nice bass rig, too. I've never played through Quilter gear but it seems to get very positive reviews here.

Congrats!