- Aug 1, 2005
- 3,546
- 1,421
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- Private Inventor - Bass Capos
I actually bought my kids one. They aren't going into the world not knowing how to measure!
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Double Bass Bass Buggie vs Wheel Cases vs Endpin Wheels
- Thread starter Richtofen
- Start date
- Aug 1, 2005
- 3,546
- 1,421
- Disclosures
- Private Inventor - Bass Capos
Full disclosure. Since they are being raised in a metric country, I don't think I will ever be able to impart the subtleties of 16ths and 32nds, let alone decimal equivalents.
15/64 = 0.234375
A bag of knowledge only North American machinists will ever learn.
15/64 = 0.234375
A bag of knowledge only North American machinists will ever learn.
Sort of dredging up an old thread here, with another option and some discussion... I purchased one of these handmade wooden bass karts from one of the bass-related vendors in the Luthiers' Pavilion at the Grass Valley Fathers' Day Bluegrass Festival earlier this month:
In fact, early last year when I first got my Alcoa and quickly purchased my Bass Buggy, a wooden DB kart like this one was really what I was looking to purchase, but there were none available in my area.
This particular wooden bass kart was one of a large number of similar karts built in California by a now-deceased builder, and it is extremely similar in design to a number of other karts that I've seen in use among the roots music DB players that I see. This one is stoutly built, heavy, technically well designed, it cost slightly more than a Bass Buggy, and I used it "in the field" at Grass Valley for about a week. The Grass Valley festival is held in an outdoor forrest-fairgrounds in the Sierras just NE of Placerville, California. Terrain is often rough and challenging for a moving DB player, and while I was willing to try this terrain with my well-loved Bass Buggy, I was on the lookout for something more built for cross-country terrain.
This wooden DB kart was helpful, but there are a number both advantages and disadvantages of with this this design compared to the Bass Buggy:
Advantages compared to a Bass Buggy:
1) it will work in high grass, sand and gravel and other challenging substrate.
2) it will actually work as a stand, and it works nearly as reliably as a real DB stand (I'm skeptical and still don't use it as a stand without being supervised, but I tested it thoroughly on varied surfaces and had no "stand" related issues).
3) it has "oversized" pneumatic knobby tires which provide a nicely cushioned ride for a DB
Disadvantages compared to Bass Buggy:
1) it is extremely heavy (~15 pounds).
2) it is extremely bulky.
3) it is actually hard to get moving, primarily due to the kart's weight; the tires also may need more air.
4) it was advertised to me that this kart could be used as a pull-wagon instead of a push wheel-barrow mode. That failed miserably for me, resulting in gravel scratches on my Alcoa, but it might possibly work better with other basses with longer endpins.
5) it scratches the finish on my Alcoa. This may be specific to the design of this particular wooden DB kart, but the carpet-cushion needs to be extended over the kart's top edges in order to avoid scratches to the DB's top and back plates.
While I strongly applaud this wooden DB kart's advantages, the disadvantages, especially those related to damaging the powder coat finish that my Alcoa wears, had me wishing I didn't have to use it. And in reality I probably could have used my Bass Buggy for a lot of the Grass Valley festival, but I wanted to "save" my Bass Buggy for less difficult terrain. To be clear, before I use this wooden DB kart again I will beef-up the carpet cushioning inside the kart so that the kart itself doesn't cause scratching.
While I was glad to have this wooden DB kart at Grass Valley, I hugely prefer my Bass Buggy and will continue using it for all but the most difficult terrain.
In fact, early last year when I first got my Alcoa and quickly purchased my Bass Buggy, a wooden DB kart like this one was really what I was looking to purchase, but there were none available in my area.
This particular wooden bass kart was one of a large number of similar karts built in California by a now-deceased builder, and it is extremely similar in design to a number of other karts that I've seen in use among the roots music DB players that I see. This one is stoutly built, heavy, technically well designed, it cost slightly more than a Bass Buggy, and I used it "in the field" at Grass Valley for about a week. The Grass Valley festival is held in an outdoor forrest-fairgrounds in the Sierras just NE of Placerville, California. Terrain is often rough and challenging for a moving DB player, and while I was willing to try this terrain with my well-loved Bass Buggy, I was on the lookout for something more built for cross-country terrain.
This wooden DB kart was helpful, but there are a number both advantages and disadvantages of with this this design compared to the Bass Buggy:
Advantages compared to a Bass Buggy:
1) it will work in high grass, sand and gravel and other challenging substrate.
2) it will actually work as a stand, and it works nearly as reliably as a real DB stand (I'm skeptical and still don't use it as a stand without being supervised, but I tested it thoroughly on varied surfaces and had no "stand" related issues).
3) it has "oversized" pneumatic knobby tires which provide a nicely cushioned ride for a DB
Disadvantages compared to Bass Buggy:
1) it is extremely heavy (~15 pounds).
2) it is extremely bulky.
3) it is actually hard to get moving, primarily due to the kart's weight; the tires also may need more air.
4) it was advertised to me that this kart could be used as a pull-wagon instead of a push wheel-barrow mode. That failed miserably for me, resulting in gravel scratches on my Alcoa, but it might possibly work better with other basses with longer endpins.
5) it scratches the finish on my Alcoa. This may be specific to the design of this particular wooden DB kart, but the carpet-cushion needs to be extended over the kart's top edges in order to avoid scratches to the DB's top and back plates.
While I strongly applaud this wooden DB kart's advantages, the disadvantages, especially those related to damaging the powder coat finish that my Alcoa wears, had me wishing I didn't have to use it. And in reality I probably could have used my Bass Buggy for a lot of the Grass Valley festival, but I wanted to "save" my Bass Buggy for less difficult terrain. To be clear, before I use this wooden DB kart again I will beef-up the carpet cushioning inside the kart so that the kart itself doesn't cause scratching.
While I was glad to have this wooden DB kart at Grass Valley, I hugely prefer my Bass Buggy and will continue using it for all but the most difficult terrain.
I used Kolstein for 35 years. It worked well and when I got a second bass I bought another. A few years ago I bought a new bag and decided not to mess with the glue on Velcro the Kolstein requires and as the bass buggy was available I gave it a go. It’s worked out well.
Pros easy on and off. Larger wheels work better on rough pavement and grass. Kolstein sometimes knocked against and scratched finish when taking bag on and off- buggy detaches. Don’t need to glue (which fails) or sew Velcro to bag.
Cons Larger wheels sometimes snag when carrying up stairs, putting in vehicle. Turning and maneuvering not as nimble as Kolstein.
I bought a bass buggy recently, I really love it. I think it is six of one / Half dozen of the other whether it is better for the bass than a wheel or even carrying it. All of the ways can go wrong. Which ever you choose be careful and focus when you move your bass. I'd like to find a way to secure the foam pad better, otherwise it is faster and better.
Maybe this would help??
Basically two "belts" made of double-faced Velcro. No problems with this design for about 3 years now.
(The only problem I have with this is one of my cats loves to chew on the padding so I have to hide it from her.)
Basically two "belts" made of double-faced Velcro. No problems with this design for about 3 years now.
(The only problem I have with this is one of my cats loves to chew on the padding so I have to hide it from her.)
I was thinking of a belt completely around with the clamp underneath.
You need to put the (shortened?) belt end around the fastened part so it doesn’t fall down in the mud.
I tried adhesive Velcro between pad and top of my own buggie design, but the adhesive gets ripped off the pad if I try to remove the pad.
It might work if I glue a (flexible?) plate below the pad and put the adhesive at the plate instead of the pad.
You need to put the (shortened?) belt end around the fastened part so it doesn’t fall down in the mud.
I tried adhesive Velcro between pad and top of my own buggie design, but the adhesive gets ripped off the pad if I try to remove the pad.
It might work if I glue a (flexible?) plate below the pad and put the adhesive at the plate instead of the pad.
For those who use the bass buggy, how well does it work on an unbagged bass? For gigs I prefer to carry the bass with the shoulder strap of the bag because I have a one trip system that includes a dolly with stool, amp, and accessories. But at school I often have to take the bass around to another wing of the building and I usually don’t want to use a bag for that.
I also recently bought a BB. I always carried, but longstanding shoulder issues and a longer walk to a regular jam made me reconsider.
When I discussed the options w/ my luthier wife, she was aghast at the idea of the strain a wheel would put on the end block. I know many folk use wheels w/ no issues, but it just seemed to me like an unnecessary risk.
Yea, I avoided adhesive Velcro, having had experience with it already. This was literally double-faced Velcro, which literally has a hook on one side and a fur on the other side, so it adheres to itself by the nature of Velcro. Very simple to use and it makes an excellent belt for this purpose.
I fall into this category of BB user. Out here in Southern California where it never rains anymore, I have been able to avoid bagging my Alcoa unless we're taking a long RV trip (not much lately). For car trips I use the bag as a fat cushion under the Alcoa -- the DB just strapped in, riding atop the bag in the car. The BB works very nicely either with the Alcoa in the bag or outside of the bag. 95% of the time the BB is just strapped on the naked Alcoa; I use a custom double thick cushion that I made for the BB, which provides lots of bounce absorption. And I literally leave the BB attached to my Alcoa and ready to use while I'm playing a gig, so there's almost no time when I'm doing the heavy lifting...
I'm not much help with this, the Alcoa end block is a block of aluminum that is literally a fully welded-in part of the body. So I can't really address this. What I can say is that the last original piece of wood on my Alcoa is the endpin plug, which since I've owned the DB has always been seriously cracked with age, but it has not failed yet with using the BB (even in some pretty rough circumstances). I have a new endpin assembly waiting for the old plug to break, but it just keeps going along, at around 90 years old now.
It works the same! Should solve that issue for you. Get the pad, though.
I have a case with wheels: I have never ever used them. These are tiny wheels; they would be at best be adapted to roll indoors, but would be completely useless outdoors on some irregular surface. Not only, it would be extremely inconvenient to drive the bass, this way, but because of absence of any damping, I would be concerned about damaging the bass.
So I carry my bass on my back. If I would need sometrhing else, that would be a bass buggy.
So I carry my bass on my back. If I would need sometrhing else, that would be a bass buggy.
This. Also talking from very expensive personal experience.
I have a bag with wheels made by Upton Bass that I’ve been using for about 20yrs now. No complaints.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
The pad is mandatory, IMO. I’ve had the same buggy (edit: See, I misspelled it too! It’s Buggie) for about 15 years and love it.
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I was never comfortable with a wheel and hated carrying the pin.
I use the buggy when I need to, but it occasionally tips over on me.
I prefer carrying it over my shoulder with everything else in a roll top backpack that also holds my folding stool and stands. I feel very balanced and it is less strain on my back.
The buggy lets me use a lighter bag as opposed to a heavier and more expensive wheeled bag (I do use a wheeled cello case, however)
I use the buggy when I need to, but it occasionally tips over on me.
I prefer carrying it over my shoulder with everything else in a roll top backpack that also holds my folding stool and stands. I feel very balanced and it is less strain on my back.
The buggy lets me use a lighter bag as opposed to a heavier and more expensive wheeled bag (I do use a wheeled cello case, however)
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Earl
Supporting Member
Wheels seem to put the bass up too high for me and it's uncomfortable. The buggie is great and is even going to come in handy using it in the house after I have hernia surgery!
I have been thinking of getting a bass wheel, or perhaps a better way of carrying the bass.
Up til the age of about 50, hauling the bass up to 5 city blocks was fine.
In high school I carried it for an hour to a theatre.
Now, at 67, anything about 1 block is fine. More than that I start to lose my sense of humour.
Tonight’s gig got me thinking about this again.
I recall Bozo Paradzik, in his documentary is seen carrying his bass on his back like a backpack. He is on the way to a packed subway train, and the picture walking does not show that it is actually snowing.
The wheel is from String Emporium and is $88 with free US shipping.
Tempting to get a wheel but I think the backpack route is more my style.
I like to jog and ride bikes so a balanced bass on my back might work.
Possibly I will have a luggage repair shop sew some straps on my cover.
I do have a crazy expensive backpack that maybe could be altered to carry the bass.
Up til the age of about 50, hauling the bass up to 5 city blocks was fine.
In high school I carried it for an hour to a theatre.
Now, at 67, anything about 1 block is fine. More than that I start to lose my sense of humour.
Tonight’s gig got me thinking about this again.
I recall Bozo Paradzik, in his documentary is seen carrying his bass on his back like a backpack. He is on the way to a packed subway train, and the picture walking does not show that it is actually snowing.
The wheel is from String Emporium and is $88 with free US shipping.
Tempting to get a wheel but I think the backpack route is more my style.
I like to jog and ride bikes so a balanced bass on my back might work.
Possibly I will have a luggage repair shop sew some straps on my cover.
I do have a crazy expensive backpack that maybe could be altered to carry the bass.
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Beware bridges with a backpack, specially when biking. You can easily break the basses neck (and even yours…).
A lot think that a single wheel in the endpin collar stresses the lower block. A two wheel like the bass stroller or bass buggy sits mainly on the top and back edges and the rib but AFAIK the wheels are not air inflated and steering is different from the single wheel.
A lot think that a single wheel in the endpin collar stresses the lower block. A two wheel like the bass stroller or bass buggy sits mainly on the top and back edges and the rib but AFAIK the wheels are not air inflated and steering is different from the single wheel.
