Bass Chorus trek...

sunbeast · Jun 20, 2023

Bassmike62 said:
Found an MXR M-134 Stereo Chorus at a very good price on MarketPlace and couldn't resist.

I owned this chorus in the past and always considered it my favorite, but space and powersource requirements unfortunately made it vulnerable to change. The CS-12 supplies the proper voltage and I took the Digitech BSW out (absolutely no use for it, even though I absolutely love this thing), so here we are.

Now going to spend time working the settings AROUND THE WIDTH knob. During this chorus bender, I discovered I liked chorus effects that allowed emphasizing width, like the TC 3rd Dimension. I'll be doing that for the next few weeks, or until I find another chorus I wanna try.

Current board, with sidelined chorus pedals.

View attachment 5099323

Is width a delay time control? I’ve been curious to try the normal Tech 21 Boost Chorus as it has a delay time control (in place of the detune control from the bass version).

bassbrad · Jun 20, 2023

I just scored an Ibanez mini Chorus and I'm taken back to the CS9 I loved so much.

Jazzdogg · Jun 20, 2023

I used my Acoustic Image Focus for years without ever trying the built-in effects. Turns out I like the chorus and delay with my basses; helps me focus on pitch somehow, which is kind of important on fretless.

Bassmike62 · Jun 20, 2023

sunbeast said:
Is width a delay time control? I’ve been curious to try the normal Tech 21 Boost Chorus as it has a delay time control (in place of the detune control from the bass version).

From the manual: "WIDTH knob controls chorusing sweep range (...) Rotate the WIDTH knob clockwise for a wider chorusing sweep range or counterclockwise for a narrower range".

To my ears, it does not act as a delay at all, more like something that gives the chorus a spacier impact, or broadens the intensity effect, if that makes sense. It really kicks in around the 11 oc mark, you hear the effect opening up.

EDIT: I have the Tech21 BBC only. The detune knob seems to have a similar impact on the sound to the M-134's width knob. I'd be really curious to see how the guitar version works on bass, with that delay function, but couldn't find any videos on it.

Bassmike62 · Jun 20, 2023

sunbeast · Jun 20, 2023

Bassmike62 said:
From the manual: "WIDTH knob controls chorusing sweep range (...) Rotate the WIDTH knob clockwise for a wider chorusing sweep range or counterclockwise for a narrower range".

To my ears, it does not act as a delay at all, more like something that gives the chorus a spacier impact, or broadens the intensity effect, if that makes sense. It really kicks in around the 11 oc mark, you hear the effect opening up.

EDIT: I have the Tech21 BBC only. The detune knob seems to have a similar impact on the sound to the M-134's width knob. I'd be really curious to see how the guitar version works on bass, with that delay function, but couldn't find any videos on it.

It sounds like the “width” might be similar to the “depth” of many other choruses? (Basically just changes the depth of the LFO sweep) Then what is the intensity control? Is it an effect blend?

Bassmike62 · Jun 20, 2023

sunbeast said:
It sounds like the “width” might be similar to the “depth” of many other choruses? (Basically just changes the depth of the LFO sweep) Then what is the intensity control? Is it an effect blend?

Could be, but I'm seeing depth as up'n'down pattern and width as a left'n'right pattern..... I'm reading myself and find it totally ridiculous, but that' how I hear it.

EDIT.... I got it wrong, according to this bit lifted from another forum. According to this, the width knob is similar to a detune knob, such as on the Tech21 BBC

Bassmike62 · Jun 20, 2023

Additionnal info, lifted from an article on Nectar Pro's plug-in. The width is more effective in a stereo set-up, but I can still the difference using the mono output.
Hope this helps.

sunbeast · Jun 20, 2023

Bassmike62 said:
Additionnal info, lifted from an article on Nectar Pro's plug-in. The width is more effective in a stereo set-up, but I can still the difference using the mono output.
Hope this helps.

View attachment 5100564

After reading the manual for the MXR, it sounds like Width in this pedal = LFO Depth ("depth" being the way it is labeled on EHX and many other chorus pedals and the way it is labeled in Nectar Pro's plug-in), which is how wide the LFO wave is that sweeps the delay time (which consequently also means how wide the pitch fluctuation is since faster delay times raise the pitch in reference to the clean tone and lower delay times lower the pitch).

Intensity seems to be just a chorus level control (so level of the delayed tone over the fixed clean tone), so I'd expect if you turned Intensity down all the way you'd essentially have an almost or fully clean sound. It seems most analog chorus pedals that allow any blend adjustment either have a control that blends from full vibrato (no clean signal) to 50/50 clean/chorus mix or alternatively one that just blends in the chorus and doesn't offer a full vibrato setting- it sounds like the MXR is the latter. It is possible the stereo outs on the MXR split the clean sound to one side and the vibrato tone to the other side when you use both outputs?

Detune as used on the Tech 21 has to be done digitally because it is a static micro-pitch detune (doesn't sweep on its own) and there is no way to do this analog that I'm aware of. The detuning effect of an analog chorus is made by constantly sweeping the delay time of a BBD delay line, but it will always be sweeping up and down across the middle delay time and so there is no way to permanently stick it at one increment of pitch detune.

Delay time controls on a chorus (which are pretty rare) change how long the center delay time is on the chorused line, and changing this changes how the two signals interact in the time and phase spheres. The delay time used in a chorus is super short, short enough that you can't hear it as a delay (no noticeable slapback of attack, etc), then that delay time is modulated (faster and slower over that center time) to create the pitch movement that we hear interact with the clean signal. On most analog choruses the center delay time is fixed at some short time chosen by the designer (then the depth/width control changes how much the delay time is modulated from this center), but slightly lengthening the delay time can add a sense of depth to the signal in a similar way that a bit of reverb can (at least to a point). For example, the Depth switch on the popular Analogman Chorus just lengthens the center delay time of the circuit which is generally considered a must for that pedal on bass (in its stock form it is mostly just an EHX Small Clone with some tweaks)

Bassmike62 · Jun 21, 2023

sunbeast said:
After reading the manual for the MXR, it sounds like Width in this pedal = LFO Depth ("depth" being the way it is labeled on EHX and many other chorus pedals and the way it is labeled in Nectar Pro's plug-in), which is how wide the LFO wave is that sweeps the delay time (which consequently also means how wide the pitch fluctuation is since faster delay times raise the pitch in reference to the clean tone and lower delay times lower the pitch).

Intensity seems to be just a chorus level control (so level of the delayed tone over the fixed clean tone), so I'd expect if you turned Intensity down all the way you'd essentially have an almost or fully clean sound. It seems most analog chorus pedals that allow any blend adjustment either have a control that blends from full vibrato (no clean signal) to 50/50 clean/chorus mix or alternatively one that just blends in the chorus and doesn't offer a full vibrato setting- it sounds like the MXR is the latter. It is possible the stereo outs on the MXR split the clean sound to one side and the vibrato tone to the other side when you use both outputs?

Detune as used on the Tech 21 has to be done digitally because it is a static micro-pitch detune (doesn't sweep on its own) and there is no way to do this analog that I'm aware of. The detuning effect of an analog chorus is made by constantly sweeping the delay time of a BBD delay line, but it will always be sweeping up and down across the middle delay time and so there is no way to permanently stick it at one increment of pitch detune.

Delay time controls on a chorus (which are pretty rare) change how long the center delay time is on the chorused line, and changing this changes how the two signals interact in the time and phase spheres. The delay time used in a chorus is super short, short enough that you can't hear it as a delay (no noticeable slapback of attack, etc), then that delay time is modulated (faster and slower over that center time) to create the pitch movement that we hear interact with the clean signal. On most analog choruses the center delay time is fixed at some short time chosen by the designer (then the depth/width control changes how much the delay time is modulated from this center), but slightly lengthening the delay time can add a sense of depth to the signal in a similar way that a bit of reverb can (at least to a point). For example, the Depth switch on the popular Analogman Chorus just lengthens the center delay time of the circuit which is generally considered a must for that pedal on bass (in its stock form it is mostly just an EHX Small Clone with some tweaks)

Great post !

Bassmike62 · Jun 24, 2023

I've pretty much settled my choice, the MXR Stereo Chorus is IT.

I found a way to squeeze in all I need/want around it, after letting go one of my pedalboard OCDs. There's event space available for an upcoming EHX Switchblade. If ever a maker comes up with a bass-friendly Dimension-type chorus, I would absolutely consider it, but for now, I'm done. The others are going up for sale.

600 Ohms · Jul 1, 2023

Pidgeon5 said:
Also, has anyone tried the JAM Waterfall (non bass)? I'm looking for a chorus that would also work well with a guitar.

The difference (to my ears) between the Waterfall and Waterfall Bass is miniscule, about the difference between the Keeley GC-2 and Bassist. I'll bet they changed one resistor just to say they have a legitimate "bass" version.

You can use the bass Waterfall with guitar and it sounds amazing.

600 Ohms · Jul 1, 2023

I know the OP is "done" but I was surprised to see the Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble missing from this list. It has an Effect Level knob as well as a low-pass AND a high-pass filter, which seems ideal for bass. I have one coming to try.

Also found a mint Anadime Bass Chorus, there were a few on Reverb recently, and it is worthy of most of the hype. On the plus side:

1) zero gain change between the pedal turning on and off
2) the HPF knob works perfectly to keep low end, fully CCW
3) modulation-wise, it can get pretty mellow (which I prefer) or quite juicy.
4) many chorus circuits tend to dull your high end a bit when engaged, I think cause there are circuits in there to reduce BBD chip noise. But Anadime is the only analogue chorus I've tried that preserves the bass's full range.

Apart from the fact that I believe every chorus, old and new, should have a mix knob, my only complaint about it is that because it can end up sounding bright, I wish I could filter off the high end of the effect while keeping my bass's original tone. If you roll off the tone knob on the bass, it really helps to mellow it out, but then you affect the bass along with it, which sometimes you want and sometimes you don't. If it could do that, I would call it near "perfect".

Bassmike62 · Jul 1, 2023

600 Ohms said:
I know the OP is "done" but I was surprised to see the Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble missing from this list. It has an Effect Level knob as well as a low-pass AND a high-pass filter, which seems ideal for bass. I have one coming to try.

Also found a mint Anadime Bass Chorus, there were a few on Reverb recently, and it is worthy of most of the hype. On the plus side:

1) zero gain change between the pedal turning on and off
2) the HPF knob works perfectly to keep low end, fully CCW
3) modulation-wise, it can get pretty mellow (which I prefer) or quite juicy.
4) many chorus circuits tend to dull your high end a bit when engaged, I think cause there are circuits in there to reduce BBD chip noise. But Anadime is the only analogue chorus I've tried that preserves the bass's full range.

Apart from the fact that I believe every chorus, old and new, should have a mix knob, my only complaint about it is that because it can end up sounding bright, I wish I could filter off the high end of the effect while keeping my bass's original tone. If you roll off the tone knob on the bass, it really helps to mellow it out, but then you affect the bass along with it, which sometimes you want and sometimes you don't. If it could do that, I would call it near "perfect".

I did settle on a pedal, but I'm still watching the thread and adding stuff to it when new (to this thread) pedals are mentionned. Maybe it will help others going into the search (or rabbit hole) for their perfect chorus. Or maybe it will just entertain.

You're right, the CE-5 should be in this list, it is quite popular on bass, we see it all the time in the various pedalboard threads and it works very well by most if not all accounts. I'm betting it was mentionned in an earlier post and I missed it. I'll correct that RFN.

Bassmike62 · Jul 1, 2023

600 Ohms · Jul 3, 2023

Putting the Anadime, Waterfall bass against Boss CE-5 and CEB-3, the CEB-3 is going on the board. It’s just the right amount of control and sounds great, without the “metallic sheen” that many choruses make that gets on my nerves. Good old Boss; I always expected I’d prefer a boutique pedal (and tried tons of them) but they proved me wrong.

Am I right in thinking the current CEB-3 is now digital? If it is, so be it, it works for me.

I wanted to love the CE-5 cause it’s the versatility I want (kind of the complete package) but I didn’t think the tone was quite right.

GMC · Jul 4, 2023

One of the issues we have as bassists when using a chorus is that very little of the bass frequencies are triggering and being manipulated by the chorus circuitry. In my experiance, most of the Chorus sound is generated in the + 5KHz territory. So as bassists we are forcing heavy chorus settings to get very little actual chorus output.
I find a big EQ boost between 5-8Khz really adds to the Chours sound on bass. I also find that most chorus effects drastically reduce low bass. So a blendable low pass filter really helps (some times called a low retain blend). Or even a big ol' active +db low bass control can help. The problem with a traditional clean blend is that you loose a lot of the chorus effect as to dial back the low end...which is very counter productive.

The reasons I like the Source Audio Lunar / Gemini is that their models are very organic and analogue sounding. They also have a huge array of addiional features that are great for bassists: it has a low retain control and it has a very comprehensive EQ section under the hood. It's also stereo and that also helps bass chorus too.

Zooberwerx · Jul 4, 2023

I've gotten really lazy and just use the resident chorus on my Tech 21 Bass Fly Rig...it's a one knobby-jobby, chorus-y, and nobody cares. Haven't played much with the Zoom B3n's options. If using a full-blown board (...rarely), I use this DigiTech which was given to me years ago. The "voicings" makes it truly bizarre...plus it has a cab sim:

Dr. Gonzo82 · Jul 4, 2023

Providence Anadime Bass Chorus

Maybe someone in Europe is interested.
Not affiliated

Bassmike62 · Jul 4, 2023

600 Ohms said:
Putting the Anadime, Waterfall bass against Boss CE-5 and CEB-3, the CEB-3 is going on the board. It’s just the right amount of control and sounds great, without the “metallic sheen” that many choruses make that gets in my nerves. Good old Boss; I always expected I’d prefer a boutique pedal (and tried tons of them) but they proved me wrong.

Am I right in thinking the current CEB-3 is now digital? If it is, so be it, it works for me.

I wanted to love the CE-5 cause it’s the versatility I want (kind of the complete package) but I didn’t think the tone was quite right.

The current CEB-3 is digital. I think the old brown pedals were the last analog ones.

GMC said:
(...) I find a big EQ boost between 5-8Khz really adds to the Chours sound on bass. I also find that most chorus effects drastically reduce low bass. So a blendable low pass filter really helps (some times called a low retain blend). Or even a big ol' active +db low bass control can help. The problem with a traditional clean blend is that you loose a lot of the chorus effect as to dial back the low end...which is very counter productive.
(...)

What about crossovers switches ?
A few MXR and EHX have those. You still get chorusing on the lower frequencies, but much less so you at least low-end.

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Bass Chorus trek...

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sunbeast

bassbrad

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Less barking, more wagging!

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