Bass D.I with amp SIM for live gigs?

[mcrawfordmusic]

Hello!
Im involved in several local bands with frequent concerts from 80 to 800 people attendance.

On thing I notices is that almost every time the Bass goes with a D.I to the mixing board and the bass amp is used on the stage just for the band`s monitoring (and the first rows of the audience get to hear it.

Bassist usually play from clean to Drive to distortion, and those harmonics sound really bad if they dont go through an Amp/Speaker.

I tried several guitar Amp simulators in pedal format, and they do the job of tammeing the distortion, but also remove the Sub frequencies, even for the guitar is noticeable.

I wonder if there is any D.I pedal with an Amp/Speaker Simulator just for that Live Concert situation, that doesn't remove low end?

Also, Im not looking for any pedal with lots of features, nor Distortion, I want the bassist to deal their own sound, and this box be just a D.I without the "Distortion-via Line" sound. The simplest the better.

Thanks !
(im double posting in the Live sub forum also, since both sub forums have to do with the topic)

Re-reading your post, it sounds like you are running sound. I think you may be better off mic'ing the bass cabinet and using a regular DI box like a Radial JDI, before their pedals. This way you get the clean bass sound from the DI (pre efx), which you can then be blend with the mic'd amp sound (post efx) to get it sounding good in the room. A sansamp would still be a good tool to have in your bag for situations where amps die or the bassist's gear sucks.

 

[evs]

I run amp-less and IEM.
My 'rig' is literally just a Sansamp BDDI.
Sounds great

 

[dadodetres]

The way your question is worded makes me think you are a sound guy, not a bassist. Why not just mic the bassists’ cabinet with a dynamic mic and mix that channel with a DI taken before the amp?

Re-reading your post, it sounds like you are running sound. I think you may be better off mic'ing the bass cabinet and using a regular DI box like a Radial JDI, before their pedals. This way you get the clean bass sound from the DI (pre efx), which you can then be blend with the mic'd amp sound (post efx) to get it sounding good in the room. A sansamp would still be a good tool to have in your bag for situations where amps die or the bassist's gear sucks.

Yes, I should have specified.
Im started with music from the bass and still my first love, used to be very active in Talkbass almost 2 decades ago... but the started engineering and producing and being a multi Instrumentalist.
In the bad that is most popular Im the album producer/engineering, but live I do play "overdubs" (mostly percussion, sound effects and harmonica). In the more experimental band we are a 7 piece shogaze instrumental and I play guitar. I feel really grateful of have 2 amazing bass players in both bands, but find that the sound always is a clean DI box after the pedals. and the more the distortion the worst it sounds...
Even though Im not the bassist, I`d like to have that tool for those and other Gigs as a team player. Also In the studio I could use it a lot when recording bass for some sessions where the amp is too much.

Micìng the amp live could be a solution for the big stages though, but the smaller ones having the extra mic and stand sometimes its uncomfortable.

A low pass filter (lpf), aka high cut filter, set to around 5-6khz can tame the high end pull the bass into typical 'bass cab' territory. Depending on the FOH mixing desk, this may be an easy fix.

Yes! we did that last saturday and really helped a lot, though not solving the problem, it reduces it significantly, with the sacrifice of some audio.

Tech 21 Sansamp family (Bassdriver, Paradriver, VT Bass).

I use four of the Tech 21 variety, ie BDDI v.2, VT Bass DI, Para Driver or Q\Strip, depending on where I'm playing.

I used to have a Bass Driver more than a decade ago, and still find that some bassist use them when I go to see live music. I actually dont like the character of this pedal... maybe its because most bassist I hear use more drive that what I like, but the bass drive has this sound of its own, sometimes might be better than without it, I agree, but im looking for something flatter, more transparent, not "tube emulation amp" but more (Transistor/clean)
I saw that the VT Bass DI has a knob specially for the Speaker Emulator. I have a Tech21 Blonde (guitar amp sim with the same speaker Button), so maybe the VT is the way to go? I wonder how clean it can get? and if the Speaker Button does remove SUB frequencies as the guitar one does?

Just a note for OP and the rest of us: Any time you are looking for a gear recommendation, please list your budget range.

Im flexible, but if I had to say a number Id say $300 US sollars

 

[klattman]

Lots and lots of options.
I’d probably go with a two notes opus. It has plenty of speaker sims to pick from and of course it also has amp sims if needed. No effects and since it has few controls, it’s good for a set once and forget thing.

I also like the HSM Humboldt bass simplifier since it has controls for the cabsim that let you dial it in (has lots of other features also) the advantage of the simplifier is it’s all analog controls.

Plenty of other options, but most are full amp sim or preamp which it sounds like you don’t really need.

 

[wvbass]

IME, and speaking as someone who regularly uses cab sims, they are just an EQ curve that I often find myself EQing my way around or blending with the non-cab sim signal. I suggest looking for a DI that you like the sound of rather than stipulating that it has cab sims, or any other specific feature.

Also, coming through a PA, we aren’t really used to hearing a “real amp;” we are more accustomed to a DI box than we are a mic’d amp. I find that no matter how much I like the tone I send to FOH, any good sound man is going to re-EQ it to sit in their mix anyway. I do enjoy my playing more if I like what is in my ears, though, which is why I often use cab sims.

Cab sims are great - some of them suck with respect to sounds I want - but I don’t find them essential.

 

[Zoot H Rollo]

Lots and lots of options.
I’d probably go with a two notes opus. It has plenty of speaker sims to pick from and of course it also has amp sims if needed. No effects and since it has few controls, it’s good for a set once and forget thing.

I also like the HSM Humboldt bass simplifier since it has controls for the cabsim that let you dial it in (has lots of other features also) the advantage of the simplifier is it’s all analog controls.

Plenty of other options, but most are full amp sim or preamp which it sounds like you don’t really need.

I'm seriously looking at the Opus.

 

[ga_edwards]

Micìng the amp live could be a solution for the big stages though, but the smaller ones having the extra mic and stand sometimes its uncomfortable.

I used to have a Bass Driver more than a decade ago, and still find that some bassist use them when I go to see live music. I actually dont like the character of this pedal... maybe its because most bassist I hear use more drive that what I like, but the bass drive has this sound of its own, sometimes might be better than without it, I agree, but im looking for something flatter, more transparent, not "tube emulation amp" but more (Transistor/clean)
I saw that the VT Bass DI has a knob specially for the Speaker Emulator. I have a Tech21 Blonde (guitar amp sim with the same speaker Button), so maybe the VT is the way to go? I wonder how clean it can get? and if the Speaker Button does remove SUB frequencies as the guitar one does?

It sounds like you need a cab emulator rather than an amp emulator. In that case, maybe an IR loader pedal loaded with an appropriate bass cab at the end of the signal chain, just before the DI could work, If it has a blend and XLR, then even better.

Something like the Two Note C.A.B. M+, Hotone Omni IR or Darkglass Element would probably do the trick.

 

[AmyTwonotes]

I'm seriously looking at the Opus.

Hi @Zoot H Rollo,

If you have any questions on OPUS, please let me know

 

[vickerekes]

After using the Sansamp BDDI for decades (now V.2) for some grit, tone control and the cabsim; about 10 months ago I added a DSM Deluxe Omnicabsim (tweakable cabsim) following the BDDI to fine tune into FOH or my (hifi) Wayne Jones powered 2X10. It works well with the BDDI and cops everything from a little open-backed 1X10 to a huge vintage closed-back 8X10 quite well. Out of production (not adding any drive or grit) they come up on the used market.

 

[sambass0124]

more transparent, not "tube emulation amp" but more (Transistor/clean)

You may try Aguilar's Tone Hammer pedal

 

[TheArchitect]

I use a Laney Digbeth and an Origin Effects Super Vintage on my board along with a Sushibox Finally DI/Pre. Its primary design intent is for recording but it works perfectly in a live setting too. The Finally is the clean, dry DI. The OE is the "classic amp" and the Digbeth is the modern, flexible option to get a variety of other sounds.

I would suggest the Digbeth in your situation as it will function as a 2 channel solution and has pretty comprehensive EQ onboard and is much less expensive than the OE. Alternatively the MXR M81 Bass Pre is very good and comes in under 2 bills. Its very clean though so don't expect a lot of dirt out if it

 

[klyph]

Also In the studio I could use it a lot when recording bass for some sessions where the amp is too much.

Micìng the amp live could be a solution for the big stages though, but the smaller ones having the extra mic and stand sometimes its uncomfortable.

So, I haven’t yet tried one with bass, but there are DIs which can take a speaker signal. I’ve been thinking about buying the one offered by Warm Audio, but Radial offers at least one DI with that function too. Again, this could be used in place of a mic, to be mixed with a clean direct signal. It would take up no additional space. You could also mix two DIs, one before the pedal board and one after.
I’m personally not fond of cab sims, they’re too subjective in their design.
I recently purchased a preamp/active DI to use in an ampless theater situation with a bass whose sound I love, so I wasn’t looking for distortion, cab sim or compression.
There are so many great options out there it made it hard to decide.
I eventually settled on a Broughton Messenger Jr. because it had a certain feature set I found useful, is small, and has a very robust build quality. The only downside for me is there is no battery option, which was fine for the gig I bought it for (I had another box which needed AC anyway).
The close runners up in my quest were
Aguilar (forget the model name!)
Sadowsky preamp/DI
Tech 21 Qstrip
JHS Pulp n Peel (probably with an hpf before)
Fishman Platinum Pro

You might consider getting a separate cab sim pedal and using it with a separate DI. This would give you more flexibility, and might be cheaper. You could patch it in to your desk on a clean DI signal, live or in the studio.

 

[BassmanNate]

I got a para driver from the classifieds for $150. Fantastic pedal/di for that price. I've seen the others in that family for similar prices if you're looking for a different flavor.

 

[Zoot H Rollo]

Hi @Zoot H Rollo,

If you have any questions on OPUS, please let me know

Thank you AmyT.

here are a few:

1. do the bass amps in Genome accurately represent the bass amps in Opus? They sound great!

2. Will there be any effects updates like CHORUS?

3. wishlist: STEREO OUTS and EFFECTS LOOP.

4. recent price drop usually indicates a push to move old stock to make room for new models. Opus Mach II? haha!

i currently own a few Dyn IRs - including the Ashdown collection: VERY NICE!

I will be using my ZOOM MS-60B+ before the OPUS.

Currently, there isn't anything like the OPUS on the market.



but with NAMM 2025 so close, i GUARANTEE i'll buy the current OPUS only to see the new GENOME pedal at the Anaheim Convention Center next January.

 

[Zoot H Rollo]

Thank you AmyT.

here are a few:

1. do the bass amps in Genome accurately represent the bass amps in Opus? They sound great!

2. Will there be any effects updates like CHORUS?

3. wishlist: STEREO OUTS and EFFECTS LOOP.

4. recent price drop usually indicates a push to move old stock to make room for new models. Opus Mach II? haha!

i currently own a few Dyn IRs - including the Ashdown collection: VERY NICE!

I will be using my ZOOM MS-60B+ before the OPUS.

Currently, there isn't anything like the OPUS on the market.



but with NAMM 2025 so close, i GUARANTEE i'll buy the current OPUS only to see the new GENOME pedal at the Anaheim Convention Center next January.

5. Opus latency and hiss?

 

[Jack]

How do you like the Paradriver? How does it compare to BDDI and VTDI? What do you use it for?

THX

I know this wasn't directed at me, but +1 for the paradriver. I always wanted the bddi but found it too mid scooped. It's the cornerstone of my analogue rig.

 

[Azari]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but +1 for the paradriver. I always wanted the bddi but found it too mid scooped. It's the cornerstone of my analogue rig.

I own both. I find the Paradriver is better on my Rickenbacker bass but the Bass Driver is better on my Aria bass. My Aria SB-1000 is extremely mids-heavy though.

 

[Snake101st]

5. Opus latency and hiss?

IME certain things in the Opus, similar to a Comp, can exaggerate any noise in your signal (e.g. power amp sim, EQ, and enhancer), especially above unity gain

Dig my Opus, though - it's pretty quiet (it also has a gate you can turn on), and with the latency/buffer as fast as possible, it feels responsive.

 

[AmyTwonotes]

Thank you AmyT.

here are a few:

1. do the bass amps in Genome accurately represent the bass amps in Opus? They sound great!

2. Will there be any effects updates like CHORUS?

3. wishlist: STEREO OUTS and EFFECTS LOOP.

4. recent price drop usually indicates a push to move old stock to make room for new models. Opus Mach II? haha!

i currently own a few Dyn IRs - including the Ashdown collection: VERY NICE!

I will be using my ZOOM MS-60B+ before the OPUS.

Currently, there isn't anything like the OPUS on the market.



but with NAMM 2025 so close, i GUARANTEE i'll buy the current OPUS only to see the new GENOME pedal at the Anaheim Convention Center next January.

5. Opus latency and hiss?

Hi @Zoot H Rollo,

Thanks so much for the above!

1 - they do indeed!
2 - currently there are none planned but we will certainly feed this back to our development team
3 - thanks for the feedback, consider this fed back!
4 - the MSRP of opus has not changed but dealers in Europe are free to sell devices for whatever they want - as such this may be the price drop you have seen. Rest assured there is no new opus hardware on the way and we are committed to updating the platform for the sole purpose of longevity for our customers!
5 - Please get in touch with our Help Desk and one of our specialists can have a further look in to this for you - https://helpdesk.two-notes.com/

 

[dadodetres]

Thanks everyone for the replys, i´ve been researching the mentioned options and still have some more to research.

It sounds like you need a cab emulator rather than an amp emulator. In that case, maybe an IR loader pedal loaded with an appropriate bass cab at the end of the signal chain, just before the DI could work, If it has a blend and XLR, then even better.

Yes, you are right, getting the cab Emulator with the D.I would be priority.

I also like the HSM Humboldt bass simplifier since it has controls for the cabsim that let you dial it in (has lots of other features also) the advantage of the simplifier is it’s all analog controls.

The HSM Humboldt is one that catched my attention, even though it has a pre-amp. Since its all analog knob and per function.
Also what interested me is that has a LPF in the Clean path than could be blended in. My quesrion is the following: can the Clean signal be left with just the Sub frequencies, and then be mixed with the full-range cab simulator? Or does the LPF afect the Cab Sim path? of does the Cab Sim affect the Sub Path?