Double Bass Bass Debate --"To Sit or Stand" -- That is the Question!

[StringQuestMaestro]

Bass Debate -- "To Sit or Stand" -- That is the Question!
What are the advantages and disadvantages to both approaches?
Please share your insights!
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http://stringquest.com/bass-position-5/ Enjoy!​

 

[Steve Freides]

I sit too much already. I choose to play standing not because I think it's better for playing but because I think it's better for me overall.

-S-

 

[gprigge]

I play in a string band and in an orchestra. I began sitting for orchestra last year. Both of my section mates sit, so peer pressure played a role, and I'm not as fatigued toward the end of the practice or rehearsal. It also seems more relaxed, making it easier to concentrate. I still stand for the band stuff. Moving my body helps with the groove.

 

[Robert Strickland]

I prefer either sitting or standing. Those two are the best positions, and better than all the alternatives.

When playing without amplification, I prefer to stand because it improves the resonance of the bass (back not muffled by the leg). When amplified, I prefer to stand, as long as I'm not tired, which is when I prefer to sit.

I feel that sitting reduces the subtle pressure on the left thumb produced by supporting the bass (unless one stands with it essentially vertical). However, a while back I switched to a bent end pin that alleviates that problem - I can stand, with the bass at roughly the same angle as when I sit, and the pressure on the left thumb is completely gone.

Basically, there are so many variables. Just do what feels comfortable.

 

[Lee Moses]

For my first several years of playing, I only played standing. Then at the insistence of one of my instructors, I purchased a stool and began sitting. For me, it resolved several problems. It resolved the ongoing problem of fighting the bass to keep it balanced, freeing up my left hand simply to play with no concern about holding up the instrument. Also it helped my arco technique by more readily allowing the arm weight to fall into the strings. So sitting certainly helped my technique and tone production.

However, in jazz, bluegrass, rockabilly, and other similar settings, sitting just doesn't look as right as standing. Standing at least makes it appear as though the bassist is interacting more with his bandmates and with the audience. So from a performance perspective, at least in those genres, standing is generally preferably, at least IMHO.

 

[Steve Freides]

For my first several years of playing, I only played standing. Then at the insistence of one of my instructors, I purchased a stool and began sitting. For me, it resolved several problems. It resolved the ongoing problem of fighting the bass to keep it balanced, freeing up my left hand simply to play with no concern about holding up the instrument. Also it helped my arco technique by more readily allowing the arm weight to fall into the strings. So sitting certainly helped my technique and tone production.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but wearing my teacher hat here, I think everyone ought to learn to balance the bass well and have no concern about their left hand holding up the instrument. This is a thing I do every lesson with kids until it's solid, and even then I still often have to fix it, for some students every lesson because they don't pay attention to it when they're not in front of me and their habits show - they do it well and then 30 seconds later, they're back to their old ways.

-S-

 

[Lee Moses]

I don't mean to sound harsh, but wearing my teacher hat here, I think everyone ought to learn to balance the bass well and have no concern about their left hand holding up the instrument. This is a thing I do every lesson with kids until it's solid, and even then I still often have to fix it, for some students every lesson because they don't pay attention to it when they're not in front of me and their habits show - they do it well and then 30 seconds later, they're back to their old ways.

-S-

Interesting--can your students balance the bass while standing indefinitely with their left hand away from the instrument?

 

[Steve Freides]

The simple test here is bowing open strings with your left hand off the bass. Yes, they can all do that. It's about the first thing I teach and it's something I revisit as often as necessary.

I play the bass sometimes at my wife's middle school, e.g., we did a chorus arrangement of "I can't help falling in love with you" for chorus and double bass pizz. They all know the answer to the question, "How do you hold a bass?" - it's "You don't, you balance it." NB: I don't teach everything things in "Please, Mr. Karr, Teach Me How To Drive A Double Bass," but I really like that one.

-S-

 

[Lee Moses]

The simple test here is bowing open strings with your left hand off the bass. Yes, they can all do that. It's about the first thing I teach and it's something I revisit as often as necessary.

I play the bass sometimes at my wife's middle school, e.g., we did a chorus arrangement of "I can't help falling in love with you" for chorus and double bass pizz. They all know the answer to the question, "How do you hold a bass?" - it's "You don't, you balance it." NB: I don't teach everything things in "Please, Mr. Karr, Teach Me How To Drive A Double Bass," but I really like that one.

-S-

Well, that's great. Of course, while the bow stroke is being applied, it's much easier to balance. The problem typically arises when lifting and resetting the bow. As I said, I played for several years standing. But even after studying double bass at one of the best university programs in the country, I don't think I could say that I ever could balance the bass indefinitely while standing. But if your students can, that's commendable.

 

[Robert Strickland]

The simple test here is bowing open strings with your left hand off the bass. Yes, they can all do that. It's about the first thing I teach and it's something I revisit as often as necessary.

I play the bass sometimes at my wife's middle school, e.g., we did a chorus arrangement of "I can't help falling in love with you" for chorus and double bass pizz. They all know the answer to the question, "How do you hold a bass?" - it's "You don't, you balance it." NB: I don't teach everything things in "Please, Mr. Karr, Teach Me How To Drive A Double Bass," but I really like that one.

-S-

Yeah. Dig that. I have positioned the bass so that there was no pressure on my left thumb while standing. It works. But for me, the bass was too "vertical". I enjoy playing more when the bass is at more of an angle. It really helps with the ease of getting to notes in the thumb position without bending over very much. Also nice for bowing. THe bent end pin does that (as does the Rabbath end pin, if you don't mind drilling another hole).

 

[Steve Freides]

Lee, I never found it difficult, and am well able to pick up and resetting the bow without a hand on it.

A friend and colleague gave me my first bass lessons - Sue Williams, for anyone who might know her here in the metro NYC area. She told me about balancing the bass, so I worked on that until I got it, and I just do the same with my students. Maybe I'll take a quick video of my position w/ the bass and some bowing.

-S-

 

[Reiska]

I stand because that`s the only way for me to get inside the music physically when playing. I have tried seated posture and it definently solves many technical issues for both hands. But, since I come from drumset and seated playing position, the only way for me to play double bass is to stand, or more like dance and play. I spent some months trying to learn Karr type of stance but I ended up with upper back problems -impossible, for me, to play relaxed pizzicato that way. I bent my endpin a little while ago and it seems to solve the problems with my posture -The bass just rests against me in an angle and it`s easier for both hands. Very minimal pressure on left thumb, easier to use large musclegroups for fingering and to get up and down the fingerboard. More arm weight for both bowing and plucking, more sound with less effort.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I wrote an article on this whole subject recently that explains my position on this issue (NPI) more coherently than my addled brain could manage on a TB post at the end of a long day. I'll attach it here. Click on a page to read in full size.

 

[csrund]

Thirty years ago, my teacher, Murray Grodner, and I were having a discussion about this in his studio. True to his typical wry form, he said, "It doesn't matter; you'll get hemorrhoids either way."

 

[Ben Noblit]

May I humbly suggest a third option?

 

[Steve Freides]

A direct link to the Jason Heath blog mentioned in Chris' article (which doesn't have a clickable link so I Googled):

http://doublebassblog.org/2008/05/standing-versus-sitting-for-the-double-bassist.html

csrund, that has to be the hardest word to spell in the English language. I'll bet you at least 9 out of 10 people would get it wrong at the local spelling bee.

Zoa, excellent - I will be trying that the next time I've had a few too many but I may not remember if I liked it the next day, just sayin' ...

The whole issue of how to use the left thumb is worthy of its own thread, IMHO, but since I'm here, again IMHO, using left thumb pressure isn't at all a bad thing, but only being able to play that way is a bad thing. I would say exactly the same thing for electric bass and for classical guitar, too.

-S-

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Thanks, Steve - I forgot that an image file wouldn't do that. Agree about the left hand thumb, and that everyone has to find their own way. Of all the students I've ever taught, only two sit the way I do, and only one on a low stool. In both cases they tried and were encouraged to try all possibilities and find what worked for them.

 

[Steve Freides]

Thank you, Chris.

The way I look at it, everyone should be able to do certain things, e.g., balance the bass standing, play without the left thumb. If a student can't do them, I want to know why and I want to fix it. They (or I) don't have to do those things all the time or even any of the time, but they're nonetheless foundational things in my opinion.

I know someone will now say, "I can't do either of those things and I play just fine" or "I can't do either of those things and I play way better than you, Steve." For me, the foundation analogy holds - build what you want in terms of a playing position/style but build it on a solid foundation.

JMO, YMMV (Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.)

-S-

 

[Der Kontrabass]

A few additional thoughts. Whether to sit or stand depends in part on:
1. The size of your bass. For me, it is much easier to stand with a smaller bass and our basses vary wildly: Invalid Link Removed
2. Your height in relation to the bass. The bent / angled pins only work so well if you have enough distance between the bass and the floor. If you are only tall enough to play with the end pin almost all the way in, then you lose the advantage.
3. How much time you spend on pizz vs. arco. YMMV, but for me, playing pizz standing is easier than arco.
4. How much of a pain it is to bring a stool. Your perspective on whether a stool is convenient depends in large part on whether you have a stage manager that ensures your stool is on stage vs. having to haul your own stool into a club and then having to squeeze the bass, the stool and amp onto a stage meant for karaoke.
5. The size of your belly. No joke.

I started playing sitting, then went to a straight pin, then an egg pin, then an angled pin and now I am back to sitting. Go figure. I liked the egg pin best for my left hand, but it moved my left arm too far away from my body for arco.

 

[gerry grable]

Thank you, Chris.

The way I look at it, everyone should be able to do certain things, e.g., balance the bass standing, play without the left thumb. If a student can't do them, I want to know why and I want to fix it. They (or I) don't have to do those things all the time or even any of the time, but they're nonetheless foundational things in my opinion.

I know someone will now say, "I can't do either of those things and I play just fine" or "I can't do either of those things and I play way better than you, Steve." For me, the foundation analogy holds - build what you want in terms of a playing position/style but build it on a solid foundation.

JMO, YMMV (Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.)

-S-

I've tried sitting countless times, but I can't get used to an upright bass that doesn't sway and move with me as I play. To me, it feels like I'm playing a fence post. Ironically, I always play fender sitting on a stool, something that has gotten me in disagreements with band leaders over the years. Some of them just don't think it looks right, just the opposite of my perception. I always said, Either I sit or I walk (no pun intended)