Bass guitar Scales not Working over Chord Progressions ?

[Brudford]

Just bought a Fender Squire Mustang Bass and coming from fifty years of guitar playing and I have studied Music Theory . So only been playing the bass for about two months . Question , my Bass scales are not working over chord progressions . Example , if I were to play a one chord say G chord progression in 4/4 on my six string guitar
a could play a Gmaj Pentatonic scale starting on the 3rd fret of the E string and every note in the scale would work .

Using the same example for the Bass playing a G chord progression and only playing the one G chord and starting a Gmaj Pentatonic scale on the 3rd frt of the E string on the Bass why does every note in the scale not work ? The root G note works , the 3rd , 5th and Octave or 7th notes all work . I know the Bass guitar is tuned down one Octave from a six string guitar , am I missing something simple here , please help .

 

[brianrost]

The 2 and 4 are dissonant notes against the I maj chord, best used only as passing tones. Dissonances sound worse in the lower frequencies where the bass lies. Using the 2 up an octave as a 9 is usually OK. Using dissonant notes on weak beats (2 and 4 in 4/4) helps.

The 6 works fine and is used in a lot of blues and country “walking” box patterns and New Orleans 12/8 lines, although it usually is played on a weak beat.

Compare these two lines to approach the IV chord:

G B D E
G A B D

How does that A sound to you? Notice it’s on a weak beat. In both lines on beat 3 is a chord tone.

Here’s the use of the 4 (and b5) over a major or dom7 chord in a very common line…variations of this are used in “Killing Floor” and a zillion soul tunes.

G B C C# D

 

[BismarckHerring]

Any note from the G major scale, and even the notes that are not in the scale can work over a Gmaj7 chord, depending on the genre and how you use the notes. In particular, it depends on what beat the note falls (strong or weak beat, or between beats), how long it sounds, and what the next note is. A great way to get a feel for this is to learn about, and practice, walking basslines.

It is true that for an instrument like guitar it is easier to pick a scale, play around with it and make it sound good. It took me quite some time to change my way of thinking about choosing notes when I switched from guitar to bass. I’d say that was by far the hardest part of switching. But an added benefit is that it also made me a better improviser on guitar. I’m more aware of the harmony when improvising, and how I can use it in my playing.

I think of it this way: the bass, and in particular the notes on the strong beats, provide the context for every note and chord that is played over it. So note choice in the bass register can drastically change the harmony, much more than in the high register. For example: If the chord is G major and you play an E (the 6th) on the one, then you’ve effectively made the band play an Em7 chord. If a guitarist decides to add a high E, the chord becomes a Gadd9, which is a much less drastic change.

 

[Brudford]

It is true that for an instrument like guitar it is easier to pick a scale, play around with it and make it sound good. It took me quite some time to change my way of thinking about choosing notes when I switched from guitar to bass. I’d say that was by far the hardest part of switching.

That is what I thought and why I asked the question , so I guess I have to dust off my Music Theory . So if playing in a band setting at the most basic level
with every chord change of the guitars I can always play the Root note of the chord , I know that will work . I also have the 3rd , 5th and octave or 7th
and that gives me at least 4 notes for every chord change including the root . Also in regard to the G major chord I would be able to use the Gmaj two note movable chord shape with G on the E string 3rd fret and the B on the G string 4th fret ? Since I cannot just run the Bass Guitar fretboard with a 2 Octave Pentatonic scale and have every note work like on a six string guitar what else is available ? I have also put to memory Major and Minor Triad shapes , however I want more . It is hard to change from a lead role with the guitar to changing to a support no lead rhythm role with the Bass , not that Bass solos
cannot be part of a live performance in a band setting . Thanks

 

[BismarckHerring]

That is what I thought and why I asked the question , so I guess I have to dust off my Music Theory . So if playing in a band setting at the most basic level
with every chord change of the guitars I can always play the Root note of the chord , I know that will work . I also have the 3rd , 5th and octave or 7th
and that gives me at least 4 notes for every chord change including the root . Also in regard to the G major chord I would be able to use the Gmaj two note movable chord shape with G on the E string 3rd fret and the B on the G string 4th fret ? Since I cannot just run the Bass Guitar fretboard with a 2 Octave Pentatonic scale and have every note work like on a six string guitar what else is available ? I have also put to memory Major and Minor Triad shapes , however I want more . It is hard to change from a lead role with the guitar to changing to a support no lead rhythm role with the Bass , not that Bass solos
cannot be part of a live performance in a band setting . Thanks

You’re on the right track. Knowing the chord shapes is essential. One way to incorporate non-chord notes is to use them as passing notes or leading notes. That is, notes that fit between the chord notes and make the bassline ‘flow’. Good examples of basslines that do this are Stand by me (Ben E King), Don’t start now (Dua Lipa), and Hey (Pixies). Each of these uses a two note run at the end of each bar that leads nicely up or down to the root of the next chord. There are a lot more basslines that do this, these are just a few that are easy to hear.

A good idea would be to figure out some basslines you like and identify the role of each note. Is it a root, a fifth, a third, a seventh? Or is it passing note? And if so, is it diatonic (in the current key) or chromatic (not in the current key, usually a half step away from the next note)? Practically every note you’ll encounter will fall in to one of those categories. That should give you some idea of how notes outside the chord can be used.

 

[BismarckHerring]

Here’s a video that you may find helpful (check out his other videos too, there’s some great info there)

 

[BismarckHerring]

For example: If the chord is G major and you play an E (the 6th) on the one, then you’ve effectively made the band play an Em7 chord. If a guitarist decides to add a high E, the chord becomes a Gadd9, which is a much less drastic change.

BTW, I meant G6 here.

 

[dreamadream99]

The only intervals you have to avoid is the half step. In a major scale that’s 3 to 4, and 7 to 8. So if the band is playing the I chord in G (GBD), you will hear that half step dissonanceif you play four (C) or seven (F#). Fortunately, there are no half steps in the pentatonic scale. In G, the pentatonic scale should be GABDEG. No C. No F sharp.

You are right. Notes do sound muddier in the low register. Most melodic instruments play with or above the band, but not the bass. So that slight dissonance you are hearing when you play A or E, is natural, but still acceptable to most listeners. A whole step is much more tolerable than a half step.

 

[Wasnex]

Dissonances sound worse in the lower frequencies where the bass lies.

Yep. Play the same notes up higher in an appropriate bass fill, and they can work just fine.

 

[Wasnex]

am I missing something simple here , please help

What you may be missing is bass lines are not the same thing as a guitar lines dropped an octave or two. This means you can't draw directly on the note choices you would use with guitar. You need to learn to play bass. The theory is the same, but bass makes different note choices for different reasons.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Playing a fundamental note down low underneath everything else gives it important context, which may be the issue here. If everyone plays G major and you go up high on your guitar and play B it sounds like a cool harmony tony emphasizing the major third everyone else is building off of. If you play a low B beneath everyone else there's no longer a G holding it all together and the longer you sit there without playing the G, the more likely it is to all fall apart.

With skill and a strong understanding of melody, harmony, and chord theory, you CAN play any one of those G-major notes beneath a G-major chord, but if you are trying to just throw a random note from that scale down low beneath everyone else you're going to change the context of those high notes everyone else is playing.

 

[mambo4]

The truth ins all 12 notes can work under any chord
if you play them with the right rhythm, in the right context (progression & style)

Realize that playing bass along with a chord or progression
is not simply a matter of finding the right scale to improvise with.
bass lines must care about the chord progression (and style) and choose notes & rhythms to support it.

 

[Brudford]

Remember I have only been playing Bass for about a month and the song MistyI learned on the guitar back in the day when I was studying at Duquesne with Joe Negri in Pittsburgh . This is my bass part for the song , please excuse the use of Tab as I am just not good enough on the Bass yet to use standard notation . Based on the advice from above what else could I have incorporated into my arrangement ? The sick thing is that after I wrote this out and tried to play it with my No Bass Misty backing track it is too advanced for my current skills . Thanks

 

[Chris Wilke]

Chart (tab) looks good.

It’s also a question of emphasis/feel and throwing in a few leading notes, either from the scale or as chromatic leading tones (half steps). This helps make the line make sense.

For example if the chord in one measure was G, then going to a C chord in the next measure, you might do something like G B D Dd | C

I this case the Db is not a chord or a scale tone, but it sets up a descending chromatic pattern ending on the root on the “1” of the next measure. That’s what makes it work. It’s also a lot more interesting if you don’t just stick to the scale.

My only question about your tab would be the opening chord, starting on the 5th. Sometimes this can work but if it sounds off, then revert back to the root on the 1. That’s what they are expecting from you

Also I am assuming when you write EbM7 you mean Eb major 7? I have seen that once or twice but have normally seen this written as Eb maj 7 or Eb (triangle).

Eb minor 7 is usually written as Ebm7 so it can be hard to tell major from minor if the hand wiring is not clear. Or, Another way to write Eb minor 7 is Eb-7.

I am only pointing this out because it would throw me off if I was reading it just from the chord symbols.

 

[White Beard]

So, one of the things about playing bass is that it has a very different role than other rhythm section instruments. Bass is the bridge of the rhythm section between harmony and meter. When I was a student learning jazz one of the clinicians that worked with us told me (and this really stuck with me), "You really outline the chord well." What he meant was, if he was just listening to the bass, he could tell what the chords were. Very complimentary. My philosophy in bass playing is that chord tones take priority. That doesn't mean that you have to play the root on 1. I loved playing the third on 1, the root on 2, and then the 3 + 4 is the seasoning. And I take this approach in bass playing in other genres, as well.

Your job as the bass player is to clearly designate meter and clearly designate harmony. Percussion instruments can get more elaborate with the time, and the comping instruments can set up the harmony. You've got to bring those two things together.

 

[Brudford]

Chart (tab) looks good.

It’s also a question of emphasis/feel and throwing in a few leading notes, either from the scale or as chromatic leading tones (half steps). This helps make the line make sense.

For example if the chord in one measure was G, then going to a C chord in the next measure, you might do something like G B D Dd | C

I this case the Db is not a chord or a scale tone, but it sets up a descending chromatic pattern ending on the root on the “1” of the next measure. That’s what makes it work. It’s also a lot more interesting if you don’t just stick to the scale.

My only question about your tab would be the opening chord, starting on the 5th. Sometimes this can work but if it sounds off, then revert back to the root on the 1. That’s what they are expecting from you

Also I am assuming when you write EbM7 you mean Eb major 7? I have seen that once or twice but have normally seen this written as Eb maj 7 or Eb (triangle).

Eb minor 7 is usually written as Ebm7 so it can be hard to tell major from minor if the hand wiring is not clear. Or, Another way to write Eb minor 7 is Eb-7.

I am only pointing this out because it would throw me off if I was reading it just from the chord symbols.

Thanks for looking over my arrangement , yes you are correct maj or the triangle is more standard than a capital M and also I used to always
use the - for a minor chord , with my next arrangement I will go back to the more standard notation for chord symbols . Oddly starting on the 5th as you mentioned works with my no Bass backing track I found on Youtube which uses a piano not guitar . Being a guitar player I looked for a track with guitar
could not find one , however it works , but barley . Like I stated I cannot play my own arrangement very well which is pathetic but at this point I can follow along with the track and at least play the root note with each chord change and use some triads thrown in .

Left hand technique is very easy for me , right hand playing with two fingers is really different for a guitar player but when using a pick on rock
songs I can fly .

 

[logdrum]

Think chordal, not scalar, If you think that the notes on G Pemtatonic is already dissonant - well a dominant chord will call for a b13 #9 . So in jazz what may be dissonant is actually used to create tension or leading into.

Anyways welcome - I stand by my signature in y role as a bass player:
< Keep Time, imply harmony, syncopate it, play low and keep the groove coming >

 

[dreamadream99]

The truth is, all 12 notes can work under any chord if you play them with the right rhythm, in the right context (progression & style)

Realize that playing bass along with a chord or progression is not simply a matter of finding the right scale to improvise with—bass lines must care about the chord progression (and style) and choose notes & rhythms to support it.

Well said. You are absolutely right. The fact is, any note maybe played beneath a chord, but it should be noted that this also may change the root and quality of the chord.

C/B - leading tone to C/Bb
C/Bb - 3rd inversion of C7. Often leading to F/A
C/A - an A minor 7 chord
C/Ab - an Ab aug 7 chord
C/G - 2nd inversion of C. Often in the final cadence, leading to G7
C/F# - a re-spelling of an F sharp diminished chord, with the A omitted
C/F - an FM9 chord, with the A omitted
C/E - 1st inversion of a C chord
C/Eb - a rather unorthodox spelling of an Eb7b9
C/D - a common substitute for the dominant D7. Shorthand for D9Sus with the A omitted
C/Db - a half step down suspension leading to D flat

 

[Brudford]

Here is the URL to the Backing track on YouTube
and I fixed the Maj and Minor chord symbols , could not tell the difference between the two . If someone wants to give it a try and let me know what is right or wrong , only did about 32 bars in . Thanks

 

[Groove Doctor]

What you may be missing is bass lines are not the same thing as a guitar lines dropped an octave or two. This means you can't draw directly on the note choices you would use with guitar. You need to learn to play bass. The theory is the same, but bass makes different note choices for different reasons.

The truth ins all 12 notes can work under any chord
if you play them with the right rhythm, in the right context (progression & style)

Realize that playing bass along with a chord or progression
is not simply a matter of finding the right scale to improvise with.
bass lines must care about the chord progression (and style) and choose notes & rhythms to support it.

Well said. You are absolutely right. The fact is, any note maybe played beneath a chord, but it should be noted that this also may change the root and quality of the chord.

C/B - leading tone to C/Bb
C/Bb - 3rd inversion of C7. Often leading to F/A
C/A - an A minor 7 chord
C/Ab - an Ab aug 7 chord
C/G - 2nd inversion of C. Often in the final cadence, leading to G7
C/F# - a re-spelling of an F sharp diminished chord, with the A omitted
C/F - an FM9 chord, with the A omitted
C/E - 1st inversion of a C chord
C/Eb - a rather unorthodox spelling of an Eb7b9
C/D - a common substitute for the dominant D7. Shorthand for D9Sus with the A omitted
C/Db - a half step down suspension leading to D flat

I started on guitar then moved to bass. Classic mistake of guitarists thinking bass is easy, oplaying guitar lines on bass, and changing instruments without a mind shift.

The more you learn about bass, the more you'll realise there's a chasm in missing knowledge/ experience. The more you learn, the more you'll look back and appreciate how little you knew. Jump in the deep end, open your mind and enjoy the journey.

Be prepared for mind opening, paradigm-altering experience unfolding in front of you.