Bass Head Vs. Preamp+Power Amp?

[alexchavel]

What's everyones thoughts on A Bass Head vs.Preamp+Power Amp?

I own an SVT-II, Traynor Monoblock, and Orange 200d bass heads.

I love their respective sounds, but have recently been hearing
more and more about separate preamp+Power amp combinations.

The logic being that PA Power Amps can deliver better more consistent power more reliably, and that great tone can be achieved VIA a small quality preamp.

I recently bought a Bergantino NV215 cab(which i love!!), and Jim Bergantino insists that the best bass sounds can be achieved by using a quality preamp combined with a quality power amp.

What are your thoughts, experience, current setups?
Cheers

 

[JimmyM]

I'd say judging from the type of amps you already have, you're best off with sticking with heads. Preamp/power amp setups are usually for people who want lots of clean power with way too much headroom to spare. Sounds like you're going for a more destructo sound.

 

[Jefenator]

I'm packing half your SVT-II. I carry the whole thing in one hand. (Which I know you can't do with your II! )

I wish I could say I've compared my setup to an all-tube head. I'm aching to go all tube (and will probably be aching in more ways than one if & when I make the leap).

The Ampeg pre is actually new to me and there's a bit of a mis-match. I can safely tell you that that power amp with the Alembic F-1X tube pre is extremely potent, with all the deep tissue massaging lows I could ever want.

Did I mention I've never been to a chiropractor?

 

[rodl2005]

I'm packing half your SVT-II. I carry the whole thing in one hand. (Which I know you can't do with your II! )



QUOTE]

Yes I can & I aint a big guy by ANY means.... 5'9" 11stone!! When it's in it's rack case- then I struggle, but by itself the SVTII is pretty well weight BALANCED! IMO


IMO- Stick w/ the AMPS!!!! NO s.s. power amp will give U the same feel as what U got already!!!!!

 

[blowinblue]

Even though my intention is to always have at least one 'head' in the arsenal, I'm really sold on the pre/power amp concept. It gives me as much or more power than I will ever reasonably need, the versatility to power more than one cabinet and adjust volumes independantly, and the ability to change either pre or power section as needed down the road. This rig weighs 40.5 lbs including the Aguilar rack bag. The guys in my band love the tone and huge sound that come out of this setup. Depending on the gig and my mood, it powers either an Epifani UL-410, an Aguilar GS 212, or one or both of my DB 115's. Definitely not the lightest bunch of gear in the world, but the tones I hear make me smile every time I plug in to any of these combinations. In fact, I like the concept so much that I'm thinking of purchasing a Carvin DCM1500 down the road someday to pair with my Ashly SC-40 for the purpose of a backup rig. BTW, if you get tired of seeing pics of this rig, please let me know.

M. M.

 

[tripb19]

In a band context, my pre/power set up is far better at representing the tone I want than the high end Ashdown, Ampeg heads I've tried.

 

[Davo-London]

I'm sort of getting there.

I've recently aquired a Summit TD-100 valve pre for recording purposes but it also will serve as a pre to go with either an active speaker eg Bergantino or a power amp and whatever speaker configuration is needed.

There's no right or wrong. After all your heads have got 2 amp stages anyway. But a valve pre and solid state power amp makes a lot of sense to me.

Davo

 

[Mike Shevlin]

...eh.....I'm waiting for the SWR MM2 head if they ever make it- I guess I'm not a power head/preamp guy

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

I would love to try that Orange head! I am a SS guy with a preamp in front of a head but lately have been GASSING to put together a tube rig. I asked our local Orange dealer if they had ever brought in an Orange bass head and they told me I was the first person to ever ask about them.

 

[JoelEoM]

I just recently put together a rack rig with a demeter pre, yamaha P5000S, and an eden D410XLT. i love the headroom i have, im running the yamaha bridged into 8ohms. tons of clean, warm power. that said, i also have a ~73 V4B that i run thru the same cab for one band i play in, and i absolutely love that overdriven tone as well, for that application. ultimately for me, i like having the extreme flexibility afforded by the pre/power configuration, but sometimes you just cant beat the sound out of an old tube amp. i guess it all depends on what youre using it for. the nice thing with the rack setup is that you can really fine tune the tone youre looking for, and i feel you have more flexibility with your power options, but with a head, its kind of this sound, and thats it.

 

[Babaluma]

i've been wondering about this too lately. i already have a really nice d.i./pre (avalon u5) and compressor (chandler germanium), so wouldn't really need another pre or a combo. what type of power amps are people using to power their bass speakers? specific designs for bass, or p.a. amps, or studio monitor style amps?

 

[Jefenator]

I'm packing half your SVT-II. I carry the whole thing in one hand. (Which I know you can't do with your II! )QUOTE]

Yes I can & I aint a big guy by ANY means.... 5'9" 11stone!! When it's in it's rack case- then I struggle, but by itself the SVTII is pretty well weight BALANCED! IMO

I stand corrected. (This might be the first time I've ever heard anyone describe the SVT-II's weight in terms that are even remotely flattering. If you're trying to nudge me over the edge towards getting one... it's working.)

I'd say judging from the type of amps you already have, you're best off with sticking with heads. Preamp/power amp setups are usually for people who want lots of clean power with way too much headroom to spare. Sounds like you're going for a more destructo sound.

That's a good point, about clean power. I used to get more power amp clipping and that was bad. I doubled the wattage, got a more efficient cab and now only the -10dB light flickers and life is good.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

If you find 85/90lbs heavy, pfft

 

[groove pump]

I use one of the first generation "Powerlights" from QSC that will run 1,400 watts bridged into 4 ohms (these are now the PLX series). I went this way a couple of years back after I found an Ampeg BSP (Billy Sheehan) preamp in a shop for a great deal. I fell in love with the clean channel tone and started plugging this preamp into the effects return of my head, which was a not-too-shabby SWR SM-400, before deciding to go big in the power dept.

The preamp is very flexible, especially the way this one has two channels that I can either blend or use separately, it's earned compliments from a couple of sound men in terms of the quality of the signal that it sends to their board, and I have so much power on hand now that I only use half of my QSC to run my pair of 2x10 cabs. Lately I've actually been wishing that I had something smaller and more simple, since this rig is a bit of overkill for practice alone or with the band in the basement, but I'm not breaking my back hauling around a big ol' SVT or anything. It sounds quite good, but there are some powerful heads around that perform extremely well, too and I recently turned up an older Genz Benz combo that may fill the bill for a small rig just fine.

For better or worse, bass players seem to have a persistent need for lots of power to get their sound out and a preamp/power amp layout is usually the most cost effective route that I've seen. I also like knowing that I can use the other half of my power source to push some of our PA system in a pinch or even run cabs with different resistance ratings out of different channels. If you've got a great sounding head, don't fix what isn't broken. If you ever get a chance to do a Pepsi Challenge between your rig and a pre/pwr layout somewhere, I think it can take a lot of the mystery out of the options that are available.

 

[theory028]

Even though my intention is to always have at least one 'head' in the arsenal, I'm really sold on the pre/power amp concept. It gives me as much or more power than I will ever reasonably need, the versatility to power more than one cabinet and adjust volumes independantly, and the ability to change either pre or power section as needed down the road. This rig weighs 40.5 lbs including the Aguilar rack bag. The guys in my band love the tone and huge sound that come out of this setup. Depending on the gig and my mood, it powers either an Epifani UL-410, an Aguilar GS 212, or one or both of my DB 115's. Definitely not the lightest bunch of gear in the world, but the tones I hear make me smile every time I plug in to any of these combinations. In fact, I like the concept so much that I'm thinking of purchasing a Carvin DCM1500 down the road someday to pair with my Ashly SC-40 for the purpose of a backup rig. BTW, if you get tired of seeing pics of this rig, please let me know.


M. M.

That looks and sounds like it'd sound awesome. I really want a separate power and pre amp setup now.

I've been looking (for fun) for something that'd do 1000w at 4 ohms into two channels so I could eventually get my Avatar B212 and future B210 running at 1000 watts combined. Then I could save room for the possibility of an Avatar B410 at 4 ohms on the other channel. That seems like it'd be a lot of fun.

I would probably settle on something cheaper like the Behringer Europower 2500. They claim that does something like 800 watts per channel at 4 ohms. Who knows. At least they're affordable.

 

[rbonner]

The cool thing about separate pre and power amp is a guy could hang a monster SS final on the thing, or even a big tube final... Or have both.

The trick here is in the preamp. You need to find the RIGHT ONE for your sound. In my ham radio rack I have a TLAudio Ivory 2 model 5051 Mono Valve Processor. Its a high end music unit with input section, compressor, a 4 band parametric equaliser (as the brits spell it) and a buffer output stage. The thing is even capabile of driving a digital spdif out...

I will probably pull it out of the rack and try it when the QSC's get here. The thing works wonders on a microphone putting tube warmth on a solid state transmitter rig and it has an instrument jack right on the front panel. BOB

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

You should def. try it, TLA stuff is sweeeet.

And I do occasionally like to have a mic pre on the go!

 

[ampeg_turtle]

probably a ******** question but is it do-able to set up a power amp to get more out of a good sounding (all be it under powered) head?

 

[gerryjazzman]

probably a ******** question but is it do-able to set up a power amp to get more out of a good sounding (all be it under powered) head?

Not ******** at all. In fact a lot of folks do it. In fact, I recently picked up a Carvin DCM1500 to use with my Eden WT300. The headphone output of the Eden works well to drive a power amp input. As long as you have some sort of a preamp output (maybe an effects send if it's post EQ), it should work fine.

 

[ampeg_turtle]

oh cool. That opens the options up a bit. Trying to breathe some new life into my rig. Guitar player up'd his gear and I just need a bit of umph without breaking the bank.