Bass just not cutting through the mix

[mapleglo]

The biggest problem I think is the 1x15". It's simply not enough to keep up with a drum kit and a 4x12 guitar rig. The 360 watts might cut it, but you'll need at least one more 1x15".

 

[mattbass6945]

let's also remember that if you're playing a 1x15, all the sound is pointed at your knees. perceived volume is lessened when it's not pointed towards your earballs.

 

[amt7565]

Awesome recommendations!! Thanks everyone. Some of you made me laugh with your funnies.

The bassist has an SWR now that I recall. But it is fairly old. It is a 1 x 15" combo amp (not a head). The drummer plays loud normally and frankly my volume is not that high. The practice room though is pretty small about 10x9'.

She has tried boosting the mids, but it sounded too trebly. Considering we are new as a group, we probably need to experiment more to find the sweet spot. Regardless, I feel she ought to get a new replacement amp. We would need some headroom should we turn out gigging.

I can turn my bass down, but it is not high right now.

 

[P bass guy]

A lot of good points being made, but I have to say that a 1x15" can provide a lot of sound. With over 300 watts plenty to keep up with a drummer and fairly loud guitars.

I don't know the type of music or the room they're playing in so YMMV... Just reminds me a lot of the scenario ive been dealing with. (I'm playing about the same type of rig, one fifteen and my trace head is actually rated at 250 watts)

I can tell you that if you've got 350 watts running into a fifteen in and your running out of headroom, and your in a rehearsal room, you are probably at "better wear your ear plugs" volumes.

I would try fixing this with EQ before wasting money on new gear. Sounds to me like she's pushing bass EQ. I'd cut bass EQ, maybe a little treble, and push mids and see if it cuts.

 

[P bass guy]

Sorry - missed your last post while I was posting.

When you said she tried boosting mids and it sounded too trebly. Was that in the mix or an assessment of the solo bass sound?

I find there's a huge difference between bass solo sound and how it sounds in the mix. What sounds weak thin and trebly alone can sound thick round and fat in the mix.

This is only my experience and I'm only a hobbiest so take it for what it's worth. Just reminded me of what I've been going through with my band. My experience is in regards to a thick heavy distorted rock and roll type mix. It seems different with clean guitars for some reason. JMHO, IME, and YMMV.

 

[amt7565]

Mattbass has a good point. We probably should point it upwards to ear levels.

P bass guy- it sounded trebly in the mix, however we do need to experiment a tad more. And perhaps add another speaker.

We play rock music. The distortions are not heavy though. I use the amp distortion only and have the gain at about 30%.

 

[amt7565]

By the way, we had another bassist audition a couple months back. He too used a 1x15" combo, but the sound cut right through with no tweaking on our end. He though, decided to play in another band.

 

[BlueTalon]

The bassist has an SWR now that I recall. But it is fairly old. It is a 1 x 15" combo amp (not a head). The drummer plays loud normally and frankly my volume is not that high. The practice room though is pretty small about 10x9'.

I have a pair of old SWR WorkingMan 15" combos, and I like them a lot. I use them for outdoor gigs. They stack quite nicely on their sides. If your bass player were to acquire another amp exactly like the one she has, she could do the side-stack trick. It probably would be rather inexpensive if she can find one, it wouldn't take any more room in your room, there would be a speaker much closer to her head, and there wouldn't be any issues with phase.

 

[P bass guy]

"By the way, we had another bassist audition a couple months back. He too used a 1x15" combo, but the sound cut right through with no tweaking on our end. He though, decided to play in another band."


There you go. He knew how to set the EQ. She needs to learn.

Not criticizing or judging - EQing bass can Be tricky and often times counter intuative. That's why I jumped in on this thread - I'm going through the same thing and hoping to learn more.

 

[Kmonk]

This is almost always an EQ issue. Boost the highs and mids a little and cut back on the lows. She might not like the way it sounds when she is playing alone but it will sound much better in the mix.

 

[BlueTalon]

"By the way, we had another bassist audition a couple months back. He too used a 1x15" combo, but the sound cut right through with no tweaking on our end. He though, decided to play in another band."


There you go. He knew how to set the EQ. She needs to learn.

Not criticizing or judging - EQing bass can Be tricky and often times counter intuative. That's why I jumped in on this thread - I'm going through the same thing and hoping to learn more.

There is more to sound and signal chain than just EQ. Assuming the only difference between the two players and their basses & rigs is the knowledge of how to set an EQ is a bit presumptuous.

 

[P bass guy]

Fair enough Blue Talon, fair enough.

It was a massive over simplification based on an assumption.

If you object, then I will withdraw my statement.

 

[BlueTalon]

Oh, I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying it's not the only factor.

(I edited my previous post to make it sound a little less contentious.)

 

[Jazz Ad]

Bass 1x15 is sized for practice, guitar 4x12 is sized for stadiums. Not much to expect from this combination.

 

[darrenmt]

Yep in this case the 360W head is fine but needs at least a 4ohm 4x10" or 2x15" assuming the head runs at minimum 4 ohms. A 1x15" doesn't have a chance against a guitar half stack or a heavy handed drummer. Also back off the lows and push the mids for more efficient power use.

 

[smeet]

1) Turn down the guitar. I'm guessing you are very loud (noon on a 100 watt Marshall is usually pretty loud)
2) Lower the bass eq on the guitar. You are probably bassier than the bass player.
3) Lower the bass eq on the bass. Bump the low mids and hi mids a lot. Do NOT scoop (smiley face) the eq.
4) What kind of bass is it? If it's a 2 pickup bass like a jazz, lower the volume on one pickup (usually the neck) to about 75%.
5) Either raise or tilt the bass amp so people can actually hear it.

I'm guessing the bass amp is only putting out 200 watts, maybe 350 if you add an extension speaker. Whatever else you do, you and the drummer should come down in volume.

 

[P bass guy]

Absolutely Blue Talon. I didn't find your post pretentious - I appreciate you calling me on that. Hope i didnt sound defensive, didnt mean to. There likely IS other factors at play.

My responses have been in regard to my recent experience where I just couldn't cut through and I found cutting bass (to allow the amp more power for mids) and increasing mids helped me in my band.

These folks could have any number of reasons for therir sound problems. Maybe it is just too much guitar rig and not enough bass rig.

 

[raventepes]

That SWR combo should be plenty for rehearsal. Again, like many have pointed out, it's gotta be an EQ problem. Power really isn't a problem, though I'd have her look into an extension cab. Adding an additional cab will increase the wattage, as well, just make sure it's 8 ohms. Also, GET IT OFF THE GROUND! Your knees don't have ears.

 

[BlueTalon]

That SWR combo should be plenty for rehearsal. Again, like many have pointed out, it's gotta be an EQ problem. Power really isn't a problem, though I'd have her look into an extension cab. Adding an additional cab will increase the wattage, as well, just make sure it's 8 ohms. Also, GET IT OFF THE GROUND! Your knees don't have ears.

+1 on the extension cab idea, but I gotta disagree with you about elevating the cab. The cab interacts with the floor, and when you elevate the cab, it looses that interaction and the bass sound becomes really thin. Unless, of course, you are elevating your cab by stacking it on another cab.

Also, while EQ is probably a part of the solution, and while the SWR combo should have plenty of power for rehearsal, if it is in a war with a Marshall half stack, it might not be enough power to compete.

 

[jeff ward]

Mids I play in Loud rock and metal bands and the only way to cut through is with a great midrange attack. Tweaking her tone to sound more bright will bring those basslines out in the mix. Sometimes the bass tone u like when u play alone doesn't work with a full band. There is a pedal she can look into if u can't tweek enuff growl and attack from the amp and bass. HARTKE ATTACK PEDAL or my fave for cutting through if u just can't get it with your amp. The Electro Harmonix Steel Leather pedal. The steel leathater adds a unique attack that alone with out a band may sound to harsh but with 2 guitars drums and vocals it brings that bass in loud and clear.