• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Bass just not cutting through the mix

A

amt7565

Aug 17, 2014
5
0
119
#1
We are trying to work with a new bassist in a 3-piece instrumental band. However her playing is not just cutting through the mix. For one, her 1x15" amp (360W) is about 20 years old and the volume is already maxed out, is out of headroom and is of a brand I don't recognize. Second, her fretting of the notes are not even, which probably can benefit from a compressor.

She has tried using active bass, with slight improvements only.

Any suggestions for improving the quality?

Thanks folks.
AMT
 
#2
New amp or everyone else turns down is the real answer.

From a tone perspective ensure the bass settings are not overdone as low frequencies consume the greatest amount of power. Boost the mids and keep treble flat or slightly notched. New strings and setup of the bass may help cut through by creating more bite in the attack and ensuring the pickups are optimal height.

But really, the first sentence is likely the best solution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Winfred and tfer
#3
I use a small (about 5#, 250W) head through a Phil Jones 6x5 neo cabinet -- I'd mention the name of the head, but I truly believe it doesn't matter much. The rig cut through the cacophony of a TalkBass get-together when it was EQ-ed flat. It's not cheap, but it is so worth the money.

PhilJonesBass-NeoPower6B.jpg
 
Last edited:
#4
amt7565 said:
She has tried using active bass, with slight improvements only.

Any suggestions for improving the quality?

Thanks folks.
AMT
Click to expand...

Perhaps she hasn't tried using the RIGHT active bass. My Modulus ALWAYS cuts through the mix.
(Not the cheapest solution, though)

Cripes if 360watts can't cut through in a trio what are the other two guys playing? Try a 2 x 10 on top of the 1 x 15.
 
#5
Thanks folks. Noted all your recommendations.
I play guitar through a Marshall JVM410 and 4x12 cab. I have it at 12 O'clock (halfway up). When I play power chords, it completely drowns the bass out. Drummer plays loud normally.

So it appears upgrading to a new amp would be best solution first. Also any recommendations on a Bass compressor pedal?

Thanks.
 
#9
Apart from playing technique, the tonal spectrum could be analyzed. The bass could be eq'ed to fill the gaps in the lower spectrum, so it'll be heard. Compressors are very common tools amongst bassists. We call it the secret weapon and it should be present on any pedal board. There's no reason to be reluctant regarding a compressor, because most basses have dead spots and more responsive spots along the neck.
 
#13
I played a couple times with a guitarist that used the same rig as yours. I had an Eden rig at that time.

Impossible to match.

The 4x12 covers all frequencies, including the bass frequencies. He liked to have a "great sound".

You have to turn down. And think as a band member where the overall sound is more important than the individual sound.

Needless to say, I left the band.
 
#14
amt7565 said:
For one, her 1x15" amp (360W) is about 20 years old and the volume is already maxed out, is out of headroom and is of a brand I don't recognize.

She has tried using active bass, with slight improvements only.
Click to expand...


So she's playing a 360 watt head with a 1X15? I don't think going active is going to do much. I have active EMGs in two of my basses and volume wise it's not that big of a difference from my passives.
THe wattage is about where it should be. She needs to be 3X what the guitarist is at. But that 1X15 only has so much surface area to push sound (read: air). I'm willing to bet if she changed that cab out to a 4X10 then you wouldn't have any problems.

I've shared a practice space with another band with two guitarists using half stacks and a bassist that was using an Acoustic 4ohm 1X15 with 100 Watts. I LAUGHED at first because I knew his sound was not punching through even without me hearing them play. I ended up selling him some old gear I had replaced and the rest of his band commented on how they can finally hear him. (Sold him my SWR 400w head and an SWR Workingman 4X10 cab). He eventually smoked the head at a gig because he ran a 4ohm and 8ohm cab together even after I told him not to try to plug that 1X15 in since it was 4ohm. Didn't listen, and he paid for it. ANYWHO!

I've jammed with several guitarists at a time with my 4X10 and had no problems. I'd never bring a 2X10 or 1X15 when the guitarist is bumping a half stack. I'd just know that I wouldn't punch through.
And don't scoop the eq. Bump the mids. Try that first. Then consider a new cab.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: jfh2112
#16
In the mid 90s my guitarist and I visited the now defunct McMurrays Music in St. Louis and when I asked to plug in a bass I was looking at the salesman plugged me into a head we'd never heard of. $1,400 for a head that looked like RadioShack I remember thinking at the time compared to the beautiful all tube handmade Trace Elliot 1x15 combo I was using at the time. Then I started playing...Instantly we looked at each other and KNEW that it was a must have! Been playing with two full stack guitarists and a heavy drummer and my sound was often described as "a water buffalo farting underwater". I put it on lay away and picked it up a couple of weeks later with help from my band mates. That purchase not only sounded incredible and "fit" in the mix with any style and band / stage scenario but made me a more musical player and opened up styles I'd never been successful at with previous amps.
That head was an original SWR SM400 and I ran it through a Mesa Boogie 2x15. Hands down my favorite setup ever. I eventually added an SWR Interstallar Overdrive and an SWR Goliath 6 x 10 and finally moved a couple years later to an SWR SM900 head although nothing I has ever surpassed that 1st sm400 and the mesa 2x15.
My point is this: a great amp rig can make a HUGE difference and now there is so much incredible stuff out there. Best bet - go as a band and try new amp set ups you're unfamiliar with and it doesn't hurt to have your band mates there to help a/b. and when you find that "aaaaahhhh" sound - spend that money - lay it away - sell a kidney - whatever it takes because it will be worth it!


Sent from my iPhone using TalkBass
 
#17
Her amp is probably OK IMO

Try rolling off the bass on your guitar amps, you might be infringing her frequency space

Try practicing at lower volume (at least until you all agree on what you are playing

If she's not 100% on what she's playing, she might be backing off on the volume now and then

Practicing with a compressor is not a good idea IMO, until you've learned to play fairly even. Live it can be used to embellish shoddy playing of course,
 
  • Like
Reactions: derg and jfh2112
#18
I played in a worship band with a rather high-end room and pro sound set up. For years and years the bass was impossible to hear, no matter what. They brought in a certain national pro-sound guy. He told us to play, and just listened. He did not trouble shoot the equipment or anything regarding hardware. The guy stops us. He asks our piano player if he has formal training. The piano guy says yes since age 5. He tells our piano player to quit playing piano like piano class and to play in a keyboard style emphasizing 3rds and 5ths, to let the guitar worry about the rest, other than that just play embellishments and never ever play his left hand below middle C. This btw was after 8 years of stage and FOH urban legends about the inaudible bass channel, bad board, bad snake, the actual total re-wiring of the entire room and system, etc. When the piano guy switched as directed the bass exploded in clarity from the mix. I WAS STUNNED. Then, when I calmed down I starting watching the sound guy. He was very chill overall and everyone was loving the sound. But I was watching him. He had his head ever so slightly cocked and just stood there. He then stops us and talks with the drummer. He eq'd the kick ever so slightly differently. AGAIN the bass crashed forward in clarity. I WAS EVEN MORE stunned. Bottom line: I learned a ton that day about competing for the same notch in the register (vs volume and other so-called "solutions"). :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Exploiter8, Winfred, Eugene B and 4 others
#19
Mids. Lots and lots of bass mids. I just went through this scenario and relearned and discovered a lot about EQing bass.

She needs to cut at 40 Hz, like pretty much all the way down. Probably 60 hz too... It least half down. And then bump the mids. A lot.

The alternative is that the guitarist takes some of the bass EQ out of his guitar sound, lightens up on distortion and most importantly turns down. EME though they never do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tedious1 and jeff ward

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back