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Double Bass Bass Method books
- Thread starter MisterBeagle
- Start date
Because of this thread, I spent some time with Bille this morning. I think the exercises are great. However, in the few things I played, some of the suggested fingerings seem odd (besides the 3rd finger thing). Some of the shifts are weird too, IMO. It may be that the suggested fingerings feel akward because I learned using Simandl, or maybe it's just not as sound. A big problem with it, again IMO, is that it doesn't introduce the fingerboard incrementally. Rather, the exercises are introduced by key, adding sharps and flats as you progress through the book. Within the first few pages the exercises are going all the way up to the 12th semitone having given a student few tools to find their way there successfully.
damonsmith, why are you so insistent on using Simandl? I mean, you just keep beating into the ground that everybody will benefit from it. Who cares if you skip it. I know a lot of monster players who haven't studied it. There are so many sources out there; Simandl isn't the only one that teaches solid foundation. Just give Simandl a break.
A hard to find book is one by Henry Portnoi, with whom both Ed Barker and Tod Seeber studied (among many others). The etudes go up the neck position-by-position and are easy for beginners to read. More so than any other book that I've encountered, the book drills (and I mean drills) each position across the strings. If you watch the BSO section, you'll see that each of them has this incredible claw as if their hands were born such that the distance between their first finger and their second is larger than the distance between the second and fourth (i.e., the claw). Nothing fancy here, but it works.
My personal feeling is that if your students use such a book you really need to focus them on relaxation of the left hand lest the claw become tendonitis.
My personal feeling is that if your students use such a book you really need to focus them on relaxation of the left hand lest the claw become tendonitis.
In spite of the anecdotal evidence and opinion in this post, there is a great deal of research showing that children (or beginners) learn string instruments more readily if they begin by playing familiar tunes. This is what Vances book and most modern string methods are based on. Intonation has very little to do with your left hand and much more to do with the students ears. Thats why it is preferable to start with tunes that they know before delving into chromatics. Simandl adherents seem to preach that the logical progression up by semitones will somehow solidify intonation. Its simply not true
I think many of us get caught up in instructional sequences (ie Simandl positions, Rabbath positions, Bille keys ) and are missing the point. Most beginners, if given the opportunity, are going to explore. They will find some fingerings that are great and some that are totally illogical. Thats where the teacher comes in. Its really independent of method. All the books mentioned here are good for different reasons but none of them will turn you into a great bass player. Only time and experience will do that. You will really develop your own personal method.
Ive had really good luck with my beginners using the Vance or Suzuki books for repertoire along with selected Simandl etudes from the method books and 30 studies. If someone wanted to go off without a teacher, I would recommend a string class method book such as Essential Elements or Strictly Strings, these books are written to be taught by string specialist who often have little bass experience and everything is really spelled out for the students. And take a lesson as often as possible. If the going rate is $100/hr see if you can do one lesson a month. Its better than nothing
This is coming from someone who was raised on Simandl and the Portnoi book mentioned above. Bass playing has come a long way in the past 50 (even 20) years.
I think many of us get caught up in instructional sequences (ie Simandl positions, Rabbath positions, Bille keys ) and are missing the point. Most beginners, if given the opportunity, are going to explore. They will find some fingerings that are great and some that are totally illogical. Thats where the teacher comes in. Its really independent of method. All the books mentioned here are good for different reasons but none of them will turn you into a great bass player. Only time and experience will do that. You will really develop your own personal method.
Ive had really good luck with my beginners using the Vance or Suzuki books for repertoire along with selected Simandl etudes from the method books and 30 studies. If someone wanted to go off without a teacher, I would recommend a string class method book such as Essential Elements or Strictly Strings, these books are written to be taught by string specialist who often have little bass experience and everything is really spelled out for the students. And take a lesson as often as possible. If the going rate is $100/hr see if you can do one lesson a month. Its better than nothing
This is coming from someone who was raised on Simandl and the Portnoi book mentioned above. Bass playing has come a long way in the past 50 (even 20) years.
Most people want the break or permission for skipping it out of laziness.
The best advice is to do it. Once you do, you see why it is still used.
There are some monster players that did not do it, out of those very few did not go through either Billie or Nanny.
At least as many players who skip it end up sounding like they did.
Did you miss an exit ramp somewhere, lowB? This is Doublebassville down here. For us the internet definitely is not full of scale fingerings.... Actually, you're looking at probably the best DB resource on the net right here at TalkBass.com.
Bingo!
As a historical note, I don't think Simandl ever intended his book for beginners. Rather, it was intended to introduce to the bass musicians already fluent on one or more other instruments.
- Sep 17, 2007
- 118
- 0
- Disclosures
- Executive Editor, Bass Musician Magazine
I think the the greatest value comes with a live teacher and not a book. Specially if you want to correct bad habits you already have and may not be aware of.( A pro will see them right away)
In leiu of a real teacher, There are some online learning resources that are promising. I believe Adam Nitti and David Dyson are involver with one (Bass Dojo?). I am sure there are otheres as well. I am more of a visual learner , so seeing is the key for me.
In leiu of a real teacher, There are some online learning resources that are promising. I believe Adam Nitti and David Dyson are involver with one (Bass Dojo?). I am sure there are otheres as well. I am more of a visual learner , so seeing is the key for me.
You didn't mention the name of the book, but I believe its out-of-print as it used to be available on the American String Teachers Assn website back in 2001 ( http://www.astaweb.com/ ), but is no longer listed. There is a PDF of the book "Creative Bass Technique" at the following link:
Link Removed
Click on the link "Technique Books" at the bottom of the page and on the next page it lists Portnoi's book in PDF form which you can download.
Lloyd Howard
I'm curious- why exactly will going through Simandl magically make you a better player? I mean, scalar exercises are great and everything, but why are the ones in Simandl better than those in, say, Rabbath? 'Cause the ones in Rabbath often use open string drones to help develop intonation, and always explore a vast number of different fingering possibilities, meaning that they're infinitely more generalizable to actual musical playing. And then there's the right hand- Simandl is more or less oblivious to this aspect of technique.
The short answer is, they are both different and it is not an either or. There is no magic, but you can pretty well count on being able to play if you work through of both methods, being a genius autodidact is harder to bank on.
You can use what ever fingerings you want with Simandl.
The right hand is not universal like the lay out of the fingerboard, and has to be dealt with differently for each bow and genre.
One of the biggest criticisms of the Rabbath methods I have is how it relies almost completely on open strings and harmonics to serve as a home base. When playing in difficult keys when you aren't able to use these references, it can prove to be quite a crutch. Thats why it always seemed to smarter to me to have a variety of materials at your disposal to tackle a broad range of problems.
What I don't get is what happened to good old curiosity? And just being a nerd for for the bass?
I want to know about everything I possibly can. I want to know about all the holds for both bows, every technique, every book I can get my hands on, etc.
How long does a freaking etude take to play through? 10 -15 minutes?
When teaching a scale or position, I will have the student play out of Simandl, Bille, Rabbath, Storch-Hrabe, Lee or whatever else I have around, maybe a Vivaldi sonata or even a jazz tune. See how they all deal with the same musical issue.
If you are serious about playing bass, attack it from all sides, don't put your all your eggs in one basket.
Excuse me while I slog through "Gradus ad Parnassum" for while!
I want to know about everything I possibly can. I want to know about all the holds for both bows, every technique, every book I can get my hands on, etc.
How long does a freaking etude take to play through? 10 -15 minutes?
When teaching a scale or position, I will have the student play out of Simandl, Bille, Rabbath, Storch-Hrabe, Lee or whatever else I have around, maybe a Vivaldi sonata or even a jazz tune. See how they all deal with the same musical issue.
If you are serious about playing bass, attack it from all sides, don't put your all your eggs in one basket.
Excuse me while I slog through "Gradus ad Parnassum" for while!
Well, I hope when you teach you can at least spell or pronounce the name right. Storch-Hrabe... Second, I hope you spend more than 10 minutes on an etude unless you want to waste your time.
Working it into a daily routine is what I meant, obviously you need to spend more than 10 minutes.
This is much better than using absolutely nothing as a home base, and the point of playing with a drone is to teach good habits in correcting intonation- it's ear training as much as it is anything else, and a bass string is a better drone than something from a metronome.
At any rate, I don't think that Rabbath, or any method for that matter, is the be-all and end-all of bass playing, especially because a method book is nothing but ink on paper, which can be misinterpreted, or carelessly slopped through with no real gain, by any old fool. An hour a day of careful work through Simandl is definitely better than no practice at all, but I think that there are many things you could spend an hour a day practicing to equal or more gain, most of which don't require any book. I definitely question the idea of saying "Play Simandl because that's the only/best way to become a good player," which more or less seems to be said alot without any accompanying advice or qualifier in threads like this. I certainly think its a lower standard of advice than is normal on this forum.
