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Bass Players are Their Own Worst Enemy!

#403
deadshovelhead said:
Bass players are their own worst enemy...


I've played keys in touring/weekend warrior bands for years. From experience, I know keyboard players are not usually the focal point. Case in point. I've been called to sub, and sit in with bands I've never even practiced with. "Just come and play the gig". I have a few friends that have "made it" in the keyboard world. Three guys in particular that are all playing stadiums, festivals and auditoriums around the world. They are all varying degrees of very successful at what they do. All three of them have joined me at some point on stage to no fanfare. Absolutely no one knew or cared who they were...

With that said... I've always... almost always carried heavy equipment. I'm not talking SVT 810 heavy. I'm talking 300lb Hammond Organ, 300lb Yamaha CP70, 150lb Fender Rhodes plus synths and amps heavy... All of these moved into and out of the venue with the help of hand-trucks, dollies, and bandmates. I've never had a problem. I've never been left behind. I've never gotten complaints that my rig was too big/heavy. It was all for the love of the craft. I've volunteered to bring lighter newer boards... Time and time again everyone wants to see and hear the older heavy keys. And... for those of you that complain about space in your CAR... I even had to buy my own trailer.

Five years ago I decided to take bass playing seriously. I really didn't know what I was getting into. I didn't know if I would be good. I didn't have the deep love for the pocket that I have now. I didn't have the relationship with drummers I have now. But... I f'n love it. I love playing bass, I love the rhythm section. The whole damn thing is magical.

Just like any other instrument... Bass can make or break a song, which brings me to my point.

Until I started perusing TalkBass, I had no idea bass players were so worried about weight. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever played with a bass player worried about weight. Maybe this is a relatively new thing?

Think about this... Guitar players roll out all the mighty tube driven gear they can afford. No one complains. The more drums the drummer has the happier everyone is. The keyboard player shows up with a B3, everyone cheers. The bass player has to shop for class D amps and neo cabinets??? to save their back??? ***???

Why are you, as bass players giving up your SVT's? Why aren't you getting help moving the fridge. I help everyone else move their rig, and they help me with mine. Why does the sacrifice fall on the bass player? Why not have a class D Leslie, or a class D Twin Reverb... Stop with the BS. Gig your 100lb head with your 150lb cab. Hold your ground. For the love of everything that is great about rock and roll, Save The Bass!

***edit***

Well... I certainly didn't intend to upset everyone so much. When I wrote this post, truthfully, I thought I was making good points that some of you might appreciate. I was wrong...

I'm playing a big bass rig now. My bandmates are all helpful when I need to move it. None of them want me to downsize. This is always the way it's been for me. My back still works... I guess I've been lucky. What I'm saying is, my perspective on all this is obviously very naive.

I'll try to be more sensitive to the TalkBass community in the future. I really "kicked a hornets nest" here, and I regret it.

Truce!
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I had the big heavy stuff for 40 years. My GK NEO 2x12" dual cabs (52 lbs each) and MB800 head 5.5 lbs sounds better than all the heavy stuff AND doesn't kill my back. IMO the newer lighter equipment sounds much better.
 
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#405
At 60 I'm blessed with a still good back although I can't heft heavy stuff quite like I did 20 or 30 years ago. I HAVE found that if you change technique as strength wanes you can greatly extend the time that you can schlep big gear around.

My Hartke 810XL weighs 145lbs but I can still manage to load it into my Dodge Ram pickup by myself if I have to. If I angle it a bit and pivot it on its back onto the tailgate once it's up it slides on without needing the strength of Samson or Hercules. I installed some spring loaded handles near the bottom of the cab near on the sides to help and if I have a helper it isn't bad at all.

I guess age and wisdom really DO win over youth and enthusiasm after all. I just wish I'd had this sort of wise trickery when I was younger!
 
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#406
This thread has been kind of funny....and informative. I've asked, politely, 137 times, WHY we continue to lug ANYTHING around.....even a Bass......as the Audience is gone and it actually costs us $$$$ to play a gig. I play RARELY now and pretty much at one venue.....so I can walk in, a Mesa rig is already there, play on a few tunes with some folks I know and leave. (after staying ALL NIGHT to support the other players). It's always an "Open Mic"...a term which makes me throw up in my own bass case.... or musicians are now almost exclusively working for Tips. I know large numbers of "Open Mic Addicts"....people who can hit 3 or 4 of them in a night, play a tune or two and hit the road again in seconds. To be clear there's usually little to NO actual "audience". The chairs are partially filled with people who are waiting to play...and that's it. Bottom Line....The "Scene" is pathetic. Music has no value. The "Class" has left it on a Local to Regional level. So I'll ask this one last time. :) How many people (not players) came to see you at your last gig....and how much did you get PAID by the Venue? Enuff to warrant lugging gear around? :)
 

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#408
R Briere said:
How many people (not players) came to see you at your last gig....and how much did you get PAID by the Venue? Enuff to warrant lugging gear around? :)
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At my last gig, we played for pizza, beer, and donations, for an audience of maybe 30 or 40 people, many of whom are regulars and come to all of our performances, and quite a few who are musicians.

I lug my upright bass, music stand, amp, and speaker every month. The reed players bring three instruments each, typically sax, clarinet, and flute. The bass trombonist also brought a tuba.

We play for the love of the music. It never makes sense commercially. How are you going to divide the money from a bar gig among 19 musicians? If I needed more gear to make this music sound good, I'd happily bring it.

With that said, I use lightweight gear because it sounds great and I'm quite happy with it. No compromises.
 
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#409
fdeck said:
At my last gig, we played for pizza, beer, and donations, for an audience of maybe 30 or 40 people, many of whom are regulars and come to all of our performances, and quite a few who are musicians.

I lug my upright bass, music stand, amp, and speaker every month. The reed players bring three instruments each, typically sax, clarinet, and flute. The bass trombonist also brought a tuba.

We play for the love of the music. It never makes sense commercially. How are you going to divide the money from a bar gig among 19 musicians? If I needed more gear to make this music sound good, I'd happily bring it.

With that said, I use lightweight gear because it sounds great and I'm quite happy with it. No compromises.
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Fdeck. I applaud you because there it is....we've now become Beggars. But it does get worse. There are still musicians who actually take money from their own pockets and pay to play ...in hopes of making it. If a house painter can't afford to buy brushes or a plumber can't afford a set of wrenches their response would be quite different.
 
#410
fdeck said:
At my last gig, we played for pizza, beer, and donations, for an audience of maybe 30 or 40 people, many of whom are regulars and come to all of our performances, and quite a few who are musicians.

I lug my upright bass, music stand, amp, and speaker every month. The reed players bring three instruments each, typically sax, clarinet, and flute. The bass trombonist also brought a tuba.

We play for the love of the music. It never makes sense commercially. How are you going to divide the monpedocs/specs/290-416-eminence-delta-12lfa-specifications-44284.pdfey from a bar gig among 19 musicians? If I needed more gear to make this music sound good, I'd happily bring it.

With that said, I use lightweight gear because it sounds great and I'm quite happy with it. No compromises.
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The Pizza and Beer is worth more than money, then they make donations on top of that? Priceless!
 
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#414
BadExample said:
We can live forever on Pizza and beer.

(fdeck and I have day jobs)
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Unfortunately you may have to. Day Jobs. So you're unable to take your music on the road? My point exactly. Hobbiests have done much to ruin what was always a tough enough gig in which to make a living. There are almost No record companies left and music is now free for the taking. Would YOU work your "day job" for payment of pizza and beer? ☮️
 
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#415
R Briere said:
Unfortunately you may have to. Day Jobs. So you're unable to take your music on the road? My point exactly. Hobbiests have done much to ruin what was always a tough enough gig in which to make a living. There are almost No record companies left and music is now free for the taking. Would YOU work your "day job" for payment of pizza and beer? ☮️
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Are you a full time, professional bassist?
 
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#417
R Briere said:
Unfortunately you may have to. Day Jobs. So you're unable to take your music on the road? My point exactly. Hobbiests have done much to ruin what was always a tough enough gig in which to make a living. There are almost No record companies left and music is now free for the taking. Would YOU work your "day job" for payment of pizza and beer? ☮️
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I get that point of view. All I did was buy a bass guitar, and some used amps. Most of the music I listen to I have on LP, CD, or both. The rest is freely available. My musical goal is not to gig. I do what I'm good at for money. Oh, and I get paid once, up front for my work, so I have to go back the next day. I did see Joe Walsh play for free. Probably should blame him :D
 
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#419
There really is no One source of "blame" if you will. It's been a conglomeration of things, each combining with others, and doing so relatively slowly so that as one generation turned into Geezerhood, the next had no idea what had gone on before them.

I was doing a clinic and mentioned that once a week our Agent would update our travel schedule. A hand immediately shot up and the 20-something player asked what an Agent was. He was serious. I responded that he /she often worked in conjunction with the Musicians Union. At the mention of the phrase "Union"...that was it... Game over.

Now it's considered "normal" to work for free..and that's in large part why the M.I. Companies which used to sell us Basses for $1,000 to $3,000 are now concentrating on selling us Foot Pedals for $99.

Again....there's no single blame to be placed...just as there's no Value in Anything that can be had for Free.
 
#420
Make no mistake, I sympathize with the plight of working musicians, and am conscious of not wanting to threaten their livelihood. But I believe the situation is much more complex than saying that hobbyists are ruining it for professionals. Maybe some are, and some aren't. I honestly don't think I've caused any musician to lose real work. I don't take this matter lightly.

In my view, there has always been a time and place for musical performances that are socially or culturally worthwhile but not commercially viable. And not all esoteric music attracts the interest of philanthropists. For some genres, if you want the music to be played, you have to just go out and play it. I'm willing to contribute to those ventures. But I don't play commercial music for free.

Believe me, we're talking about a tiny corner of the music business. In my view, larger factors in the decline of live music are: 1) Volume levels. 2) Internet and televised sports, which have grown exponentially in the past 50 years. That's hard to compete with.
 
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