Bass scales! !!!!!!

[MalcolmAmos]

If you are following the chord changes and playing the notes of the active chord, you don't need modes.

But, I understand you being confused, and want to know what all the fuss is about.

There are two ways of making modes. The relative way where you walk the key and the notes stay the same and then the parallel method where the key stays the same and the notes change. I know I just confused you more. Two methods of making modes, both end up accomplishing the same thing. Each just takes a different road getting to the same objective.

Asking mode question on the Internet you will get answers, however, which method is being used in the answer, relative or parallel? That is often omitted in the answer. So it does get confusing.

If you really want to get into this now ask specific questions about what confuses you and we will try to un-confuse you. Check this video out, it may answer your question. Invalid Link Removed

In the video, listen for these specific points being made.
Playing the C major scale and you want the Lydian sound; all that is necessary is to sharp the 4th scale degree in the C major scale. Want Dorian? You will have to flat the 3 & 7 scale degrees in the C major scale to get the Dorian sound. Once I understood that the fog lifted. Yes I just gave you parallel answers.

Why modes? For their sound. What are their sounds? That is a good question - describe a minor sound. Take a few moments and describe a minor sound - hard to do, your answer of what a minor sound sounds like is probably different than mine, here is what I hear, your ear may hear something different.

Ionian - Major - happy up beat.
Lydian - Major - I don't hear that much difference, but the #4 does give it a different sound than Ionian. Call it what you like.
Mixolydian - Major - I hear Latin.
Aeolian - Minor - Sad or startled.
Dorian - Minor - Attractive minor sound. It is my favorite minor mode.
Phrygian - Minor - Exotic Middle Eastern is what I hear.
Locrian - the diminished mode. I hear dark and tense.

So if you want an Exotic Middle Eastern sound use Phrygian - for the whole solo. If you want an up-beat happy sound Ionian will give that, however, so will the Major Scale. Ionian has the same notes as the major scale. So they will sound alike. Aeolian has the same notes as the Natural minor scale, and yes Aeolian will give the same sound as the Natural minor scale --- IF played over a chord progression. To get the modal sound you really need a modal vamp droning in the background. Remember Scott droning the E string and playing the modes in the key of E. Modes need a droning vamp so the modal sound will come through. Do a Google on modal harmony.

The road to modes is long and narrow, best taken one mile at a time. Learn how to make them and then we can get into how and when to use them. Run your modes the same way you ran your scales - get their note sequences into muscle memory. Scott does, in other videos, suggest you stick with one mode for a whole week instead of running all seven at one practice session. That way you get to know that mode very well.

Here is a backing track for you to practice your modes over.

Good luck.

 

[Cnote2]

Thanks, MA that shedded a light on what I had already had an idea of , now how do one say use the G mag in Dorian or any other mode form do the fingering stay the same or what

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Thanks, MA that shedded a light on what I had already had an idea of , now how do one say use the G mag in Dorian or any other mode form do the fingering stay the same or what

Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

I'm speaking of parallel modes.

I'm not sure what G mag is........
G major scale degrees are R-2-3-4-5-6-7 Place the box's R on a G note and then play the major scale degree sequence (R-2-3-4-5-6-7) found in the box. Doing that the box will automatically places the correct notes for the G major scale under your fingers. Check it out the pattern should have given you the G, A, B, C, D, E, F# notes; which are the notes of the G major scale.

If you want G Dorian start with the G major scale and then flat the 3 and 7, i.e. move the 3 and 7 one fret toward the nut. Because the pattern for Dorian is R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7. We are speaking in parallel modes.

If you want E Dorian take the E major scale and flat the 3 & 7. Yes the pattern for any Dorian is R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7. Place the box's R over the root (found on the fretboard) of what you want to play and the scale/mode pattern will place the correct notes under your fingers.

Want Lydian, start with the major scale and sharp the 4th.
Want Mixolydian, start with the major scale and flat the 7 to a b7.
Want Aeolian, start with the major scale and flat the 3, 6 & 7. Aeolian's note sequence is R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7.

This may help. The major scale is home base to all the major modes and the home base for all minor modes is the natural minor scale (R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7) Now hang on --- If you want Dorian you could start with the natural minor scale and sharp the b6 to a natural 6. Or --- start with the major scale and flat the 3 & 7. Either way; I prefer using the major scale as home base for the major modes and the natural minor scale as home base for the minor modes,

Back to your question. The patterns stay the same you control what mode or scale with where you place the R. R on the 4th string 3rd fret gets G something, that something depends on the scale/mode sequence pattern you played after placing the root.

Hope that makes since.

 

[Cnote2]

Ohhhhhh!!!!!

 

[Cnote2]

Is there a thread on here that discusses the different modes and their function's meaning what note's is flatted or sharped.

 

[Cnote2]

I meant G maj, LOL!

 

[Lobster11]

Here's a way I find useful for thinking about how the sound or "color" of the different modes is related to which notes are flatted or sharped. I'll use the G major scale to build upon what MA has already said.....

Play the G major scale from root to octave and back: G A B C D E F# G. This is the mode of "G Ionian," and it has a bright, cheerful sound. Now, play it again, but this time flatten (lower a half-step) one note, specifically the 7th: that is, play F instead of F#. This is "G Mixolydian," and it sounds slightly darker than the Ionian mode did: Everything sounds bright and cheerful again until you get to that F, which kinda harshes your mellow a bit. Go back and forth between playing root-to-octave and back in Ionian mode and in Mixolydian mode to hear the difference.

Next, play from root to octave again, this time flatting both the 7th (F instead of F#, as in Mixolydian) and the 3rd (Bb instead of B). This is "G Dorian," and you'll notice that it sounds even darker than Mixolydian did. Go back and forth between playing G Ionian and G Dorian to get the sound of that difference in your head.

Next, play from root to octave again, again flatting both the 7th and 3rd but now also flatting the 6th (Eb instead of E). This is "G Aeolian," which with three flatted notes (relative to the original major scale or Ionian mode) sounds even darker still. The next mode, "G Phrygian," flattens four notes -- the 2nd (Ab) in addition to the 7th, 3rd, and 6th -- and sounds darker still. Finally, for "G Locrian," flatten yet one more note -- the 5th (Db instead of D) -- and it sounds positively evil.

There's one more mode, but it's actually in the opposite direction (so to speak). For the "G Lydian" mode, start with the G major scale (Ionian mode) again, and instead of flatting anything, sharp (raise by a half-step) the 4th: i.e., play C# instead of C. Most people find that this sounds even more "bright and cheerful" than the Ionian mode.

So, the order in which the sound/color of the modes ranges from bright-and-cheerful to dark-and-sad corresponds exactly to the number of flats and sharps (relative to the major scale), as follows:

Lydian (one sharped note)
Ionian (no sharps or flats)
Mixolydian (one flatted note)
Dorian (two flatted notes)
Aeolian (three flatted notes)
Phrygian (four flatted notes)
Locrian (five flatted notes)

 

[Staccato]

We're also developing a mindset, or muscle memory. This has beginners wondering if it's best to practice a scale starting with the root note, or jump in anywhere. It shouldn't matter, either way?

At the same time, we're trying to ignore any notes that are not part of the scale that is being practiced (block them out, or ignore them). Of course, the obvious exception is adding a passing note(s) when improvising something.

 

[Lobster11]

We're also developing a mindset, or muscle memory. This has beginners wondering if it's best to practice a scale starting with the root note, or jump in anywhere. It shouldn't matter, either way?

In the videos that I linked previously in this thread, Scott Devine emphasizes the importance of practicing scales not only from root to root, but instead from the lowest available note to the highest available note within your position on the neck. Either of these notes might or might not be the root.

For example, suppose you are practicing the G major scale using the fingering pattern that starts with your 1st (index) finger on the root. You'd start with that finger on the low G (E string, 3rd fret), and then play G-A-B on the E string, C-D-E on the A string, and F#-G on the D string. But you don't want to stop there: Without changing positions, you now have your 2nd (middle) finger on the G note (D string, 5th fret), and you can continue going upwards using the more familiar fingering pattern, continuing with A on the D string, and then B-C-D on the G string. Now you've run out of real estate, so go back down the way you went up, all the way back to the low G. So in this position, you practice the G major scale from the low G to the 2nd-octave D (and back).

On the other hand (so to speak), suppose you want to practice that familiar fingering pattern that starts with the 2nd (middle) finger on the root, so you start with that finger on the low G (E string). From there you would play A on the E string, then B-C-D on the A string, then E-F#-G on the D string. But you can keep going by now switching to the alternative fingering pattern that starts with your 4th finger (pinky) on the root (in this case, G on the D string, 5th fret). Using that pattern you can play A-B-C on the G string before you run out of real estate. Going back down, when you get back to the low G you still have another note you can reach: the F# on the E string, with your index finger. (You could continue and include the open E if you wish.) So in this position, you practice the G major scale from the low F# (or low E) up to the high C.

Of course, it is crucial while practicing these patterns and positions to always keep in mind where the root notes (in this case the G's) are. A good way to do this while practicing is to always start with a root note, and then play up to the highest available note, back down to the lowest available note, and then back to the root.

 

[Groove Doctor]

The goal should be to free yourself from positions altogether and simply know where the notes are -by name- at any point on the neck. For this, I think the sticky thread Pacman's sure-fire scale practice method is the best approach.

+1. I really like this approach, its the easiest to grasp and most usable approach to incorporate live.

You do need SOME basic fundamentals (technical and theory) to do it though.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Is there a thread on here that discusses the different modes and their function's meaning what note's is flatted or sharped.

Many of the posts in this string touched on it, but, here they are all in one spot. I've included the scales because IMO any study of modes has to start with the scales so you can see how one different note becomes a mode. Part of the story we have not touched on is the mode's mood Any mode needs a modal vamp so the modal mood has time to develop. A chord progression changes so quickly and normally resolves to the tonic sound. Because of this the modal mood does not have time to develop when played over a chord progression. Google modal harmony - long story but, you might as well get this important part into your gig bag.

Major Scale Box.
Code:
G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Scales
• Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7 Home base
• Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6 Leave out the 4 & 7
• Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Major scale with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
• Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7 Leave out the 2 & 6.
• Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 Minor pentatonic with the blue note b5 added.
• Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 Natural minor with a natural 7.
• Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7 Major scale with a b3.
Let the major scale be your home base then change a few notes and you have something different. No need to memorize a zillion patterns. Let the major scale pattern be your go to pattern - then adapt/adjust from there.

Major modes
• Ionian same as the Major Scale. R-2-3-4-5-6-7.
• Lydian use the major scale and sharp the 4 - yes, it’s that simple. R-2-3-#4-5-6-7.
• Mixolydian use the major scale and flat the 7. Change one note..... R-2-3-4-5-6-b7.

Minor Modes
• Aeolian same as the Natural Minor scale. R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7.
• Dorian use the Natural Minor scale and sharp the b6 back to a natural 6. R-2-b3-4-5-6-b7. Change one note.
• Phrygian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2. Again change one note. R-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7.
• Locrian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2 and the 5. OK here you have to change two notes. R-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7.

Their function begs the question when do you use a Mixolydian mode. The answer lies with what sound are you looking for. We use modes for their sound.

• Ionian same as the major scale - up beat and happy.
• Lydian so much like the major scale I seldom use it, however the #4 does give it a different sound than Ionian. You pick a name.
• Mixolydian with the b7 gives a different sound, I hear Latin. Sound is very personal, how would you describe the Mixolydian sound? Compared to Ionian we've heard earlier that it has a darker sound. Get your own set of names.
  
• Aeolian - same as the natural minor scale - sad or startled.
• Dorian- an attractive minor sound. If you want an attractive minor sound use Dorian.
• Phrygian gives an exotic Middle Eastern sound. Fun to play, but, I seldom have a place for it.
• Locrian gives a dark and tense sound. If you want a dark and tense sound use Locrian.

Do not fall into the trap of running modes willy nelly over a chord progression, i.e. over the major chords using the Ionian mode then over the dominant seven chord switching to the Mixolydian mode and then if there is a minor chord using one of the minor modes. Each of those modes has a mood. Changing the mood as the chord change -- good luck with that -- does your song change moods three or four times during the song. I do not think so. Pick a mood and stick with it's mode.

BTW, have fun. You have been given enough "stuff" to keep you busy for months. As Scott says; "Go get in the shed".

 

[Lobster11]

+1. I really like this approach, its the easiest to grasp and most usable approach to incorporate live.

You do need SOME basic fundamentals (technical and theory) to do it though.

Sure, the goal is ultimately to know where all of the notes are across the entire fretboard -- and also to be able to "see" where all the notes are for any particular scale or mode in any particular key. Once you reach that point, you can always find or invent a fingering that suits the context. However, it takes a long time and a lot of practice to get to that point -- I know I'm certainly not there yet myself! -- so the next question is what and how to practice in order to progress toward that goal. Learning three distinct fingerings for each major scale, and how to use them all around the fretboard, is a very practical and valuable way to start, both to develop muscle memory for common patterns and to learn to "see" the scales on the fretboard. Then you can move on to learning how to be able to move freely among the various fingerings.

I'm sure there are many other approaches one could use to work toward the same goal, but Scott's explanations and demonstrations of this approach are what really opened my eyes, and I'm really happy with the progress I'm making. Of course, YMMV, etc....

 

[Groove Doctor]

Most people are 'detail' thinkers aka left-brain. I'm a 'big picture' thinker aka right-brain, and the pieces only made real sense to me after I put them all together 6 years later in a jazz band. I pretty much invented Pac-mans method by necessity.

So if one approach isn't working for you - try the other approach.

EDIT: I did already know all modes and the three finger positions, so def start there!!




I remember modes by songs they appear in:
Caravan - E Phrygian (slightly altered)
Sign You Name Terence Trent D'Arby - F# Dorian in verse.
Most early rock'n'roll - Mixolydian (any dom7th chord).
Flying in a Blue Dream, Joe Satriani - Lydian.
Ionian and Aeolian are normal Maj and min songs.

Pick your own songs if that'll help you remember better.