Bass scales! !!!!!!

[Staccato]

Considering the three (or more) positions, I'll start practicing Pacman's method.
Any other suggestions that might help?

 

[Lobster11]

Considering the three (or more) positions, I'll start practicing Pacman's method.
Any other suggestions that might help?

Here's another one of Scott Devine's videos that explains the three positions, and then moves on to the idea of learning how to connect them with each other:



These really opened up my eyes not only to the different ways to finger scales and arpeggios, but (as he points out in the first video) really helped me learn the fretboard. This should keep you busy for a while!

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes Scott and Ed Friedland are two of my heroes that can get their point across so that we mortals understand what they are talking about. Good study.

In this video Scott points out the hills and valleys that need to be in our solos. Hills and valleys - three close notes then a leap of at least a 3rd. It's the leap that makes it interesting. More interesting is what you do after the leap, where does the leap take you.

Back to what ever pattern you use. In relation to the root where is.......

The 2 is always same string up two frets.
The 3 is always up a string and back a fret.
The 4 is always up a string same fret.
The 5 is always up a string and over two frets.
The 6 is always up two strings and back one fret.
The 7 is always up two strings and over one fret.
The 8 is always up two strings and over two frets.

In the above I said relative to the root. But lets go out side the box -- relative to any note, it's 5 is always up a string and over two frets. Then that note's 4 is just up a string, same fret.....

Does that open up your fretboard? Did mine.

 

[NekoTheWolf]

The 2 is always same string up two frets.
The 3 is always up a string and back a fret.
The 4 is always up a string same fret.
The 5 is always up a string and over two frets.
The 6 is always up two strings and back one fret.
The 7 is always up two strings and over one fret.
The 8 is always up two strings and over two frets.

Sure this works, as long as your only talking about the major scale, if you get in different key signatures, chord shapes, etc. Your going to need to change this around a bit.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Sure this works, as long as your only talking about the major scale, if you get in different key signatures, chord shapes, etc. Your going to need to change this around a bit.

True, want a minor scale - you will have to flat the 3, 6 & 7. Move the 3, 6 & 7 back toward the nut one fret. Want to sharp the 4th, and get a Lydian sound, go ahead and move the 4 toward the sound hole one fret. Want a Mixolydian sound? Flat your 7. Love Dorian, flat the 3 and 7, but, leave the 6 as is. Want the major pentatonic? Omit the 4 & 7.

It's all relative....... I let the major box be my starting point and then change a few things... but, keep my ole major scale box as my Rosetta Stone.

 

[Lobster11]

Yes Scott and Ed Friedland are two of my heroes that can get their point across so that we mortals understand what they are talking about. Good study.

In this video Scott points out the hills and valleys that need to be in our solos. Hills and valleys - three close notes then a leap of at least a 3rd. It's the leap that makes it interesting. More interesting is what you do after the leap, where does the leap take you.

Back to what ever pattern you use. In relation to the root where is.......

The 2 is always same string up two frets.
The 3 is always up a string and back a fret.
The 4 is always up a string same fret.
The 5 is always up a string and over two frets.
The 6 is always up two strings and back one fret.
The 7 is always up two strings and over one fret.
The 8 is always up two strings and over two frets.

In the above I said relative to the root. But lets go out side the box -- relative to any note, it's 5 is always up a string and over two frets. Then that note's 4 is just up a string, same fret.....

Does that open up your fretboard? Did mine.

To really illustrate the multiple-fingerings idea, though, you have to add more to this. For example, "The 2 is always same string up two frets," as you say, but the 2 is ALSO always up a string and back 3 frets. "The 3 is always up a string and back a fret," but the 3 ALSO is always up four frets on the same string. Some fingerings take you one way, some the other way. This is what really "opens up the fretboard" for me.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

To really illustrate the multiple-fingerings idea, though, you have to add more to this. For example, "The 2 is always same string up two frets," as you say, but the 2 is ALSO always up a string and back 3 frets. "The 3 is always up a string and back a fret," but the 3 ALSO is always up four frets on the same string. Some fingerings take you one way, some the other way. This is what really "opens up the fretboard" for me.

Good point, I'll have to chart this out. We've been talking about three patterns does this apply, is there a 3rd set to this thinking - that is useable?

 

[Lobster11]

Good point, I'll have to chart this out. We've been talking about three patterns does this apply, is there a 3rd set to this thinking - that is useable?

Assuming, as we have so far, that we're playing a major scale in an ascending direction, there are two ways to get from the 1 to the 2 (as I noted above): same string/up two frets, or next string/down three frets. Whichever way you go, there are now two ways to get from there (the 2) to the 3. The interval (in a major scale) from 2 to 3 is the same as the interval from 1 to 2 -- i.e., a "whole step" or "tone" -- so whichever way you went to get from 1 to 2, you now have the same two options to get from the 2 to the 3. That actually yields 2x2 = 4 possible ways to get from 1 to 2 to 3. One of these -- up a string/down three frets, then up a string/down three frets again -- isn't very useable, but the other three correspond to the first two steps of the "basic three" fingerings. The most common one starts with the middle finger on the root, then uses the pinky to play the 2 (same string, up two frets), and uses the index finger to play the 3 (up a string/down three frets), but the two other fingerings are equally useful depending on context.

Someone pointed out previously that there are many more than three possible fingerings for a major scale, and you can see why if you continue with the logic above. There were four ways to get from the 1 to the 3 (via the 2), and from that point there are now two ways to get from the 3 to the 4. In this case the interval is a "half-step" or "semitone," so the two options are up one fret/same string, or up a string/down four frets. In principle you now have 2x2x2 = 8 ways to get from the 1 to the 4, and then 2x that many ways to get from 1 to 5, and so on. That yields a LOT of possible fingerings (although for many of them you'll quickly run out of either frets or strings). Out of all those possibilities, the "basic three" are the only ones that allow you to combine these various ways of getting from one note to the next while keeping your hand in one position of the neck and using all the strings.

Does that make sense?

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Assuming, as we have so far, that we're playing a major scale in an ascending direction, there are two ways to get from the 1 to the 2 (as I noted above): same string/up two frets, or next string/down three frets. Whichever way you go, there are now two ways to get from there (the 2) to the 3. The interval (in a major scale) from 2 to 3 is the same as the interval from 1 to 2 -- i.e., a "whole step" or "tone" -- so whichever way you went to get from 1 to 2, you now have the same two options to get from the 2 to the 3. That actually yields 2x2 = 4 possible ways to get from 1 to 2 to 3. One of these -- up a string/down three frets, then up a string/down three frets again -- isn't very useable, but the other three correspond to the first two steps of the "basic three" fingerings. The most common one starts with the middle finger on the root, then uses the pinky to play the 2 (same string, up two frets), and uses the index finger to play the 3 (up a string/down three frets), but the two other fingerings are equally useful depending on context.

Someone pointed out previously that there are many more than three possible fingerings for a major scale, and you can see why if you continue with the logic above. There were four ways to get from the 1 to the 3 (via the 2), and from that point there are now two ways to get from the 3 to the 4. In this case the interval is a "half-step" or "semitone," so the two options are up one fret/same string, or up a string/down four frets. In principle you now have 2x2x2 = 8 ways to get from the 1 to the 4, and then 2x that many ways to get from 1 to 5, and so on. That yields a LOT of possible fingerings (although for many of them you'll quickly run out of either frets or strings). Out of all those possibilities, the "basic three" are the only ones that allow you to combine these various ways of getting from one note to the next while keeping your hand in one position of the neck and using all the strings.

Does that make sense?

I'm sure it does, I'll have to chart it out and give it some study before it belongs to me. Always something new, that is what I like about music.

 

[Lobster11]

I'm sure it does, I'll have to chart it out and give it some study before it belongs to me. Always something new, that is what I like about music.

Make sure to watch the videos I linked, especially the first link in post #22 above. This one explains the three basic fingerings in detail, and then talks about moving around among them.

The video you linked, regarding the "hills and valleys" stuff, is really good, but I think you'll find it a lot more useful after you get this other multiple-fingerings stuff down. If you want to be able to play three successive scale notes, and then jump a fourth or fifth, you have to where to find all those notes -- and you want to have more than one option available so you can choose whichever one works best in the context of where you are and where you're going from there. (Personally, I'm still working on the stuff from the arpeggios videos myself!)

 

[MalcolmAmos]

................(Personally, I'm still working on the stuff from the arpeggios videos myself!)

Yes we do reach a saturation point. My Country is root-five with chromatic runs to the next chord. My Praise is quick chord changes and pounding out roots. Dirt simple stuff and anything more complicated will get me fish eyes from the guys.

But it is interesting to see what else is out there......

 

[Clef_de_fa]

If you go from C up to G you have a fifth but if you go from C down to G you have a fourth. If you go from C up to E you have a major 3rd but if you go from C down to E you have a minor 6th.


Also with your major scale box ... you are like stuck between fret 0 and 5 ... you could expend a lot more with you consider playing 2 or 3 octaves of your major box ... in various pattern. Or let say ... you play a Bbmaj/min scale only on the E string. That kind of stuff led itself to some interesting stuff.

 

[jav]

If you go from C up to G you have a fifth but if you go from C down to G you have a fourth. If you go from C up to E you have a major 3rd but if you go from C down to E you have a minor 6th.


that's assuming the root has changed from C to G and C to E.. I was just confused at first.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

If you go from C up to G you have a fifth but if you go from C down to G you have a fourth. If you go from C up to E you have a major 3rd but if you go from C down to E you have a minor 6th.


that's assuming the root has changed from C to G and C to E.. I was just confused at first.

no no no, your starting point is always the same C.

in this exemple you have a 5th
G|------------------
D|-----------5------
A|------3-----------
E|------------------

in this exemple you have a 4th
G|------------------
D|-----------------
A|-------3---------
E|------------3----

So in both case it is C going to G but depending if you go up you have a perfect 5th and if you go down you have a perfect 4th

in this exemple you have a major 3rd
G|-----------------
D|-------------2--
A|------3---------
E|----------------

in this exemple you have a minor 6th
G|----------------
D|----------------
A|------3--------
E|-----------0----

In this case it is always C going to E but going up gives you a major 3rd and going down gives you a minor 6th.

 

[Staccato]

Yes we do reach a saturation point. My Country is root-five with chromatic runs to the next chord. My Praise is quick chord changes and pounding out roots. Dirt simple stuff and anything more complicated will get me fish eyes from the guys.

But it is interesting to see what else is out there......

Please elaborate about the quick chord changes so I can gain a better understanding what you're doing with that.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos View Post

Yes we do reach a saturation point. My Country is root-five with chromatic runs to the next chord. My Praise is quick chord changes and pounding out roots. Dirt simple stuff and anything more complicated will get me fish eyes from the guys.

And Staccato asked: Please elaborate about the quick chord changes so I can gain a better understanding what you're doing with that.
__________________
By quick chord changes I'm speaking of the chord progression changing quickly. Praise can and will use all seven of the chords in a key in one song. I lock in on the bass drum, use sheet music with Nashville numbers and pound out roots. For example:

.......3........4......3......2
And we cry holy, holy, holy
.......3........4......3......2
And we cry holy, holy, holy
.......6....5...4......3......2....5..5...1
And we cry holy, holy, holy is the lamb.

Normally the changes come so fast that one note is all the time you have, or need. It's root on one and be ready for the change. Being aware of what lyric word syllable the chord changes happens on is important. I do not want to rush the change or miss the change. Hitting the change dead on is expected.

Yes I sing along, under my breath, to know when to change chords. I've got the drums in my left ear and a blend of myself and the lead vocalist on my monitor. Our monitors have input from everyone, we can increase, or decrease, the sound on each instrument as well as the vocal input from each station.

 

[Staccato]

^ More to start practicing this week, thanks for the comments!

 

[Cnote2]

How much practice time should be spent on a scale say C mag before moving on to the next phase of your practice regimen

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Short answer, when it's in muscle memory and you can do it in your sleep, time to move on.

Scott Devine said in one of his videos; "Work on one mode for a whole week, do not work on all seven at one time, take them one at a time and really work on just that mode."

So, IMO when it is in muscle memory and you can do it with out thinking about it --- then take that scale/mode into all three octaves -- then go get another scale/mode.

Scale, mode or arpeggio - same answer.

 

[Cnote2]

I'm confused with how the modes work