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Bass setup vs scale length

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Pure.Fusion

Dec 12, 2010
68
0
#1
Hi all (I looked for the newbie section but I see none)

What makes some bass guitars so easily playable?

I'm new to playing bass, coming from 20 years of guitar playing. I've owned a 6 string Ibanez BTB for 18 months now and are slowing making progress playing with my fingers and not a pick. Finger picking doesn't come easy doing scales and appegios etc.

Then totay at the music store, I picked up a Musicman 5 string (short scale) and suddenly, everything I wnt to play just happened. I'm still buzzing a bit right now. It's like overnight I can suddenly play.

So, can anybody tell me why the Musicman feels so nimble for the finger picking hand? Is it a scale length thing, or a string gauge thing (I think It was still 45's but the shorter scale made them feel softer) ?

I did play some other short scale basses (Warwick I think) and this didn't feel so nimble.

Is it possible to get my long scale Ibanez monster to feel like this?

Newbie help needed here. Any comments appreciated.

Cheers,
FM
 
#2
I'm sorry to inform you that none of the basses you mentioned are short scale.

Your BTB is probably 35". The Musicman was 34". The Warwicks were 34". Short scale is generally 30-31", sometimes less. Medium scale is 32 or whereabouts.

Undoubtedly the Musicman felt so good (even at the right hand) is because it's a fantastic bass. Rarely will you come across a bad one, even at Bigbox.
 
#4
Just answering the question generically based on what you asked. Short scale basses (30" or 32") are generally easier to play due to less string tension and more compact fret boards. I can imagine that for a guitarist transitioning to bass that may be an advantage since the scale length would be closer to that of a guitar.

As far as your current bass is concerned a 6 string with a 35" scale isn't what I'd choose to begin learning to play bass. Personally I think you're making it harder on yourself than you need to with that instrument. It's not an easy instrument to play even for an experienced bassist.

I'd suggest to find an inexpensive 4 string with either a 34" inch scale or a 30" or 32" short scale and get the fundamentals down. I've been a bassist for over 30 years and even I don't play a 6 string. I realize it's a matter of choice but I don't see the need for one with my playing style. I don't even play a string all that often.

I also teach. I would never have a student learning to play on a 6 string long scale bass like your Ibanez. I'd would even discourage them from learning on a 5 string. My suggestion would be to find a shorter scale 4 string bass you like and use that to begin with then transition to a 5 string if you like once you've got the basics down. JMHO.
 
#6
The basic use of a bass is for rhythm section foundation. For that use, a 4 string is all you will ever need. 5 strings are good for some genres. 6 string basses are for those who want to replace the lead guitarist and the solo star in the group. MY advise, get a 4 string 34" scale and learn to play the bass as it was intended.
Rocky
 
#9
Rocky McDougall said:
6 string basses are for those who want to replace the lead guitarist and the solo star in the group. MY advise, get a 4 string 34" scale and learn to play the bass as it was intended.
Rocky
Click to expand...

And women who want to vote are trying to replace men as the dominant sex- they should get back to the kitchen as they were intended to. Check back here for more forward-thinking news and information :rolleyes:
 
#10
I also have a BTB 676 and find my MM Stingray classic 4 string much faster, I think it has more to do with neck shape. It also helps that the fret work on the MM will be much better than the Ibanez, not a big shocker it plays better. I find my Carvin LB76 plays WAY faster than my Ibanez, and than my Stingray, so I don't think the amount of string has anything to do with it either.
 
#11
I would concur with the idea here that a btb is not a good beginner bass, I have been playing for 13 years and have never been all that comfortable with 35" scales or 6 stringers. As a guitarist convert you could take the short scale option (30-32) as these will be closer to normal feeling for you but I would recommend getting a standard 34" 4 stringer to start. The squire vintage modified line offers good options if your on a budget.

To answer the second part of your question, from what you are saying about the buzzing it seems as if you BTB needs a set up and probably the main reason for the buzz is you truss rod needs a tweak.

Hope this helps.
 
#13
A few replys - thanks guys.

Short scale? Woops, I did mention newbie! At least what I meant was that yes the MM is the 34" and the BTB is longer.

Absolutely, i knew It was a hard ask to go straight to a 35" in a 6 string. To reach across that wide neck to get to the low frets on the B string was going to take new muscles I'd never used before. But having size 13 hands made this easier and after 18 months I don't seem to have a problem with it. Six strings (as opposed to a four string) didn't bother me at all after about a month.

Rocky McDougall - Thanks for your advice on what I will need for my recording projects - I'm sure your right across it and are in the best position to hand out sweeping advice like 4 string is all you will ever need.

Really, I need some basic mechanical knowledge of why I found the MM so easy and nimble to play, and why I find it so hard to do this wih the ibanez. It has nothing to do with the number of strings. Specifically, it is a right hand thing - it was easier to alternate 1st and 2nd finger across the strings as the left hand fretted the notes.

soulman969 said:
It's not an easy instrument to play even for an experienced bassist
Click to expand...

Really, I'd like to know all the technical resons behind this comment Soulman.

Cheers,
FM
 
#15
34" is long scale. 32" or so is medium scale. 30-31" is short scale.

The MM is 34" instead of 35", and has one less string, and so a narrower neck. The neck shape may have also been more to your liking.

Also, having one less string, it may have had wider string spacing, which for some people means an easier time playing finger style. Not being that familiar with the basses in question, it may have had narrower string spacing, which some people actually prefer.
 
#16
I would like to add to Rocky's observations ... On a serious note the muting question may be giving you problems, it's not easy to keep the open strings on a 6 quiet and many a 4 string player has pronounced 6's as useless and given up. Look on T.B. for set up suggestions , once the bass has it's neck straightened out and intonated properly you may find yourself not fighting the instrument quite so much
 
#17
Rocky McDougall said:
The basic use of a bass is for rhythm section foundation. For that use, a 4 string is all you will ever need. 5 strings are good for some genres. 6 string basses are for those who want to replace the lead guitarist and the solo star in the group. MY advise, get a 4 string 34" scale and learn to play the bass as it was intended.
Rocky
Click to expand...
I know exactly what you mean. You are CORRECT! I've seen TOO MANY 'BS bassists' who were so technical and busy that they actually could not 'play bass' to a SONG, which is what 99% of bassists have done in the history of popular recorded music. Ignore the remarks made to your post.
 
#18
Something people don't always mention is neck profile. Sure there's nut width, taper and scale length, but the profile makes a huge difference in how a bass feels and plays too. I have four basses that all have (almost) the same nut width and taper but they all feel and play a bit different from one another and it's mostly because the profiles are all a bit different. There's a chance your hand just "fits" the Stingray better. As far as scale length goes I have not noticed it making a big difference in how a bass plays, especially from 34'' to 35''. (I also think the benefits of longer scales are overblown so don't give yourself hand cramps just so you can say your scale length is bigger.) And of course if your setup is bad--really high action with really heavy strings, or something like that--you're not going to have as easy a time of it.
 
#19
Pure.Fusion said:
...can anybody tell me why the Musicman feels so nimble for the finger picking hand? Is it a scale length thing, or a string gauge thing (I think It was still 45's but the shorter scale made them feel softer) ?

Is it possible to get my long scale Ibanez monster to feel like this?

Newbie help needed here. Any comments appreciated.
Click to expand...

There's no reason why a beginner can't play a six-string bass. However, there are basic mechanical reasons why one bass will feel "easier" or "faster" than another, and also why a 6'er will generally represent a bit more of a challenge.

The mechanical issues are somewhat subjective and quite personal, depending on the size and shape of your hands, physical strength, technique and personal preference.

Looking at your BTB vs the MM, there are some obvious physical differences:
- Weight matters. If the MM is a US model, it's probably a good pound lighter than the Ibby. Smaller and lighter always feels "friskier"- try a Beatle bass sometime!
- The longest fret-to-fret stretch you'll normally do (C to Eb on the B string, first position) is about an 1/8th of an inch longer on the Ibanez. Not huge, but still a small, noticeable difference.
- The BTB has a wide/flat neck carve, combined with wide string spacing at the nut and bridge. This neck shape (and the considerable size) make it best-suited to people who use a mechanically efficient, "classic guitar" fretting hand position: an open hand, the thumb fairly low, behind the neck.
- The MM has a rounder carve, with narrow spacing at the bridge and nut, and one less string. As a result, it's more forgiving of the typical "rock and roll" hand position, with the fingers curled in a more cramped shape and the thumb higher, possibly even wrapping over the top of the neck.
- Assuming that the MM is a US model, it's also a more expensive bass, and may show the effects of cleaner fretwork and a better setup.
- The MM may be using round-core strings (like DR Sunbeams), which feel a little softer and less stiff than typical hex-core strings, even when they are the same gauge.
- The MM may be using smoother strings (ie; most nickel strings vs most stainless), which can also be a little easier on the fingertips, plucking or fretting.
- A lot of players who own multiple basses, are particular about string spacing at the bridge. Particularly if you're a guitarist, even a small increase in string spacing can throw off your timing, making the instrument feel clumsy when you are jumping strings.

So what do you do about it?

First off, in order to get the two basses on the same playing field, you'll want a pro setup on the Ibanez.

Secondly, you'll want identical strings on both basses. This is easier said than done. The Ibby, like a lot of 35" basses, needs super longs.

Off the top of my head, I don't know of any SL round-cores. You may be able to fit regular DR longs, but you'll have to measure the B string carefully. If the string tapers before the nut, then it will buzz, and the intonation will be terrible. Thomastik will fit (Jazz Flats have a super-soft feel), but you'll have to trim the silk with a razor blade, as I do on my 35" fiver.

Last but not least, you've argued that the sixth string is not the reason that you find the Ibanez a little clunkier to play. Well, you're wrong. You can overcome it, but a wide-spaced 6-string is always going to feel a bit like an army boot, compared to a narrow-spaced 5'er.

If you're enjoying the BTB (lovely basses, by the way), I would sink the extra dough into a pro setup and maybe a string change.

Then play the two for at least 3 to 6 months, to see what works best for you...
 
#20
I can think of lots of things that apply to the left hand, but for the plucking hand not so many.

More agreeable string spacing.
Different radius of fingerboard (compounded by the extra string)
giving you a different feel.
Different strings that give a better (for you) feel.
Whatever your thumb rests on is positioned better for your hand.
The shape of the body might put your arm, or the bass itself in a
more comfortable position.

There are probably other reasons but that's what I can think of =)
 

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