Bass speakers advice chat

[TICKLEDICK]

I 'd advise steering clear of two usual questions.

First, you're tuned a major 3rd below low B: Leave that to the house system. It's a fool's errand trying to make a stage rig to push fundamentals in the low 20hz range, not to mention the bleed into every mic on stage. What we hear as bass is actually in the 100-200 hz range which is routinely handled by most any commercial cabinets.

Second, as @JimChjones points out, commercial bass guitar bins are all designed as standalone cabinets, which regardless of format, are designed to operate in the same frequency ranges, unlike 2, 3, or even 4-way commercial FOH cabinets which are designed to work together.

IF you find that none of the bass bins you audition aren't right for you, you might want to consider a 2 or 3-way PA bin, with the proviso that it may be almost disturbingly clean vs. bass cabinets (and all the dirty work is done vs. building something similar on your own).

You and your ears will have to decide.

thats fair enough thanks for the reply

"IF you find that none of the bass bins you audition aren't right for you, you might want to consider a 2 or 3-way PA bin, with the proviso that it may be almost disturbingly clean vs. bass cabinets (and all the dirty work is done vs. building something similar on your own)."

honestly in a years time when im ready to push my rig to the next level this might just be the answer for me or is at least worth spending some money to try it out and see if i like it.

 

[Guitalia]

well i know it worked with my guitar into a mesa cab from a line 6 hd pod pro rack unit and was so loud it was insane, if its not enough power for a bass thats fine but maybe offer some advice instead?
what power amp would you use? or reccomend using?

Sorry! My post was more about being surprised that all of the previous posters had apparently skipped past your mention of the amp you were planning to use.

Makes sense that the 44-watt Electro-Harmonix amp served you well as a power amp for your guitar. In fact, I'm thinking about picking one up for future gigging on guitar, thanks to your description. Sounds perfect for modeler->44 Magnum->my pair of lightweight 12" Rocktron cabinets. That, or the similarly small Carvin 2x50-watt amp, for stereo effects.

The problem with using the 44 Magnum with a bass is that the power needed for clean amplification goes up more or less exponentially with lower pitches.

That's why, for good-sized rooms or outdoor gigs, or any high-volume situation where the bass isn't being D.I.'ed into a massive PA system, many TalkBass veterans consider anything below about 800 watts barely adequate, especially for a 5-string bass in a metal band.

You never know, though. If your band is willing to rehearse at reasonable/low volume levels (where your 44 Magnum would be the limiting factor), and if the band always plays gigs in rooms with PA support, including subwoofers, you may be able to get away with using that amp.

I don't play metal, but I was in a pretty loud modern country band until a few years ago, and I was able to get away with using a 250-watt amp going into one 10" and one 12" speaker. Perfect for small clubs, once I got the drummer to stop bashing so hard. Anywhere that setup would have been inadequate, we always had PA support.

 

[TICKLEDICK]

Sorry! My post was more about being surprised that all of the previous posters had apparently skipped past your mention of the amp you were planning to use.

Makes sense that the 44-watt Electro-Harmonix amp served you well as a power amp for your guitar. In fact, I'm thinking about picking one up for future gigging on guitar, thanks to your description. Sounds perfect for modeler->44 Magnum->my pair of lightweight 12" Rocktron cabinets. That, or the similarly small Carvin 2x50-watt amp, for stereo effects.

The problem with using the 44 Magnum with a bass is that the power needed for clean amplification goes up more or less exponentially with lower pitches.

That's why, for good-sized rooms or outdoor gigs, or any high-volume situation where the bass isn't being D.I.'ed into a massive PA system, many TalkBass veterans consider anything below about 800 watts barely adequate, especially for a 5-string bass in a metal band.

You never know, though. If your band is willing to rehearse at reasonable/low volume levels (where your 44 Magnum would be the limiting factor), and if the band always plays gigs in rooms with PA support, including subwoofers, you may be able to get away with using that amp.

I don't play metal, but I was in a pretty loud modern country band until a few years ago, and I was able to get away with using a 250-watt amp going into one 10" and one 12" speaker. Perfect for small clubs, once I got the drummer to stop bashing so hard. Anywhere that setup would have been inadequate, we always had PA support.

hi sorry only just been online to check the thread, yeh i think for what you want or even metal that magnum 44 is really good.
ive worked out what i want to do now anyway, im going to use my headrush flex prime into an active frfr speaker, eventually ill probs make a decent sized 2 or 3 way rig, this should solve my issues really and allow me to create a tone from a neutral source.

"The problem with using the 44 Magnum with a bass is that the power needed for clean amplification goes up more or less exponentially with lower pitches.

That's why, for good-sized rooms or outdoor gigs, or any high-volume situation where the bass isn't being D.I.'ed into a massive PA system, many TalkBass veterans consider anything below about 800 watts barely adequate, especially for a 5-string bass in a metal band."

thats true its something i hadnt thought about when i threw together this to be fair.

 

[theaudiopath]

I'll spell it out. That 44 mag is a guitar amp. It will not cut it for bass. Don't even try unless you ENJOY dissapointment and suffering! If you're in the UK. Barefaced make some of the best speaker cabs I have come accross. I would just save the hassle & buy one of theirs. I've built speakers & modded them for 4 and a half decades. Including ARIA (Ausie Grammy) winning studio monitors. & Barefaced thinks like I do. One of the very best Wattage is important. But WAY more important is speaker efficiency You want to aim for 100 dB @ 1 w @ 1M 3.3 feet. Without that your power needs go through the roof. Example my boss Katana despite its BS power claims. Had a 60- 70 max rms class A/B amp running 210's & horn. Because they were around 100 + dB efficient. It was able to keep up with a loud drummer for practice & would do a small pub or club JUST! But was @ its limit! For practice I now run what I believe is an early Fatial pro cast basket 4 Ohm 15 in a keyboard cab called an ELKA RM100 . The electrics in that 100 wrms started getting real noisy. So I removed them for later restoration. And currently run an Ashdown MAG 300 into it for serious headroom. This setup has cost me less than $300 Au and those previous rigs were around $1000 Au @ the time of purchase. One was swapped under warranty & the other sold for a loss of only $300 & I don't miss them one bit! If you can cart them. There are a lot of AMAZING sounding bass speaker cabs going cheap cause everybody's downsizing & or going full speakerless. I mean its old school . But just today I saw a JBL E145 in a huge cab going for $175! here in Au! Big, cumbersome 26 pounds for the speaker alone. But Jesus, what a sound! That is where I would be looking for tone bargains. The reason I did what I did. The speaker IS the major dictator of tone. & that vintage beast of a speaker in the ELKA absolutely SLAUGHTERED the Katana 210 & and Ampeg rocket 115 EASILY! @ least to my trained ears. And cost me $100! Takes pedals like a champ and breaks up JUST right with the right dirt pedal The Ashdown $175 & the rest was port mod materials & cabinet damping. To buy a new rig that matches its tonal sound quality would be around $2K Au @ a minimum! Mirroring whats already been said. Aiming for the extreme frequencies is pointless. The venue you play in is part of the equasion. And a lot of venues will roll off waterfall style anything below 40 hz or higher because controlling those frequencies is next to near impossible live in your average pub or club. And trying to get there causes more problems than it solves. That's just the harsh reality. And you will 99 % likely be mixed above the kickdrum by FOH anyway. Don't think in terms of where you want your rig to go. But where in reality its going to sit in a mix. All audio gear is a balance of compromises. What you want is what will cut through in a mix. And thankfully all the heavy lifting's been done already. And its currently selling cheap!