Bass to DAW/plugins then reamping to practice amp

[FretRiff]

With my eyes glazing over at the variety of choices in the TB Classifieds and at Sweetwater, I'm reconsidering growing a pedal collection for home use, and thinking instead I could send my passive bass signal into my Audient iD4 MKII audio interface, apply effects/plugins loaded in my DAW (Ableton), then send the signal back out to a practice amp.

If anyone has done this:

- have you had to deal with DAW or interface latency issues?
- are you using a reamp box to get the signal from line level back to signal level - and if so what do you recommend?
- I read that reamping might be optional and the mismatch going into the amp might not be a problem - any opinions about that?

Also, if you’re doing this what plugins are you using? I currently have a zillion instruments and effects I’ve accumulated over the years for my synth playing, and I think it might be fun to play around with things like

- multiband compressor
- multiband saturation/distortion
- spectral time stretcher
- morphing EQ (blends bass timbre with another audio source like vocals or drums)
- Rhythmic gates/slicers (like a Boss SL-2 slicer on steroids)
- quantized looper

 

[ardgedee]

- have you had to deal with DAW or interface latency issues?

The more effects you add, the greater the latency will be. For me, a DAW with a couple effects engaged doesn't have noticeable latency. Half a dozen might or might not, it depends (some effects are more bandwidth-intensive than others). Layers and layers and layers are almost guaranteed to.

Some methods of compression use lookahead to determine their behavior (they delay the signal slightly to allow the leading signal to affect how the trailing signal is processed). Those have unavoidable latency when playing live, usually too slight to notice but in combination with other effects they can exacerbate it.

 

[brianrost]

When reamping, the latency doesn’t really matter. It can be corrected after the audio has been recorded, just drag the track to line up with the other tracks.

If you want a reamp box, check out Radial.

 

[FretRiff]

latency doesn’t really matter. It can be corrected after the audio has been recorded,

I'm talking about latency in the trip from the bass to the DAW to the amp, which would matter to me as I play.

If you want a reamp box, check out Radial.

 

[silky smoove]

Radial has a useful guide in helping you to select a reamp box: Comparing Reampers - Radial Engineering

 

[FretRiff]

Thanks. I'm asking primarily about any experience with latency issues, which reamp box is being used by TBers, and is it true a reamp box in this situation might not even be necessary? That product link is interesting, and I came across it as well as some others, but it doesn't address those questions.

 

[brianrost]

I'm talking about latency in the trip from the bass to the DAW to the amp, which would matter to me as I play.

That’s not reamping.

Reamping is taking a track recorded without an amp and later playing it back theough an amp and record that. It’s very popular for live albums because it takes care of mike bleed, amp noises, etc.

Latency from the DAW to the amp is going to be about the same as it is when recording bass -> outboard effects -> DAW -> phones/monitors but the recording of the amp in that case will be delayed so you don’t want to be monitoring that track. That’s why I always record dry using the direct monitoring feature on my interface and do not monitor the DAW track.

 

[claudel]

I'vve been playing around with this for a while now

My setup

Bass > interface > iPad > cans/full range monitor

have you had to deal with DAW or interface latency issues?

By choosing my apps carefully and insuring I don't overload my iPad my total latency measures <6ms

AUM can show which apps are excessively latent. I had to dump a few I liked because of it.

I'm running a 5th gen iPad that has a fraction of the power of the newest ones...

I'm limited to 48Khz bit depth and larger buffer so as to not swamp the ancient CPU but a new M4 one should run fine @ 96Khz with a tiny buffer which should improve latency even more.

- are you using a reamp box to get the signal from line level back to signal level - and if so what do you recommend?
- I read that reamping might be optional and the mismatch going into the amp might not be a problem - any opinions about that?

Don't really need a reamp box, If I want dry signal I can route one thru the interface along with the processed one.

Most interfaces will accomodate a wide rage of levels, in and out, so no unsightly mismatches.

Also, if you’re doing this what plugins are you using? I currently have a zillion instruments and effects I’ve accumulated over the years for my synth playing, and I think it might be fun to play around with things like

- multiband compressor
- multiband saturation/distortion
- spectral time stretcher
- morphing EQ (blends bass timbre with another audio source like vocals or drums)
- Rhythmic gates/slicers (like a Boss SL-2 slicer on steroids)
- quantized looper

There's many iOS audio mangling apps.

I use AUM as an app mixer, Toneboosters & Yonac are probably my most favored app houses but there are tons of others

Most of the iOS people I run across are synth users. Many are Loopy Pro fans

It's nice having a giant virtual rig that fits into an iPad...

 

[brianrost]

As far as mismatches related to levels and impedances from an audio interface into an amp, how picky are your ears? If you’re just recording at home for fun, it won’t matter. If you are working remotely on the new Taylor Swift album, then maybe.

I noticed that the cheapest reamp box Radial offers is designed to take the signal off a headphone jack rather than a line level XLR jack. That suggests that it’s aimed at users with simpler audio interfaces…most 2x2 interfaces don't support multiple monitor mixes so not having to disconnect your studio monitors to hook up your reamp box is a plus. The box still provides the proper impedance to the amp, though.

If you already own a passive DI box, you can use it for reamping. Make a cable that connects the output from your audio interface (1/4”, 3.5mm. XLR, whatever) to a male XLR.

 

[FretRiff]

As far as mismatches related to levels and impedances from an audio interface into an amp, how picky are your ears? If you’re just recording at home for fun, it won’t matter. I

This isn’t about recording. The main idea is using plugins in my DAW as virtual pedals, playing at home back through an amp. The main question is more of people’s experience with plugin latency, and secondarily about the claim I read about perhaps not needing a reamp box.

 

[FretRiff]

I'vve been playing around with this for a while now

My setup

Bass > interface > iPad > cans/full range monitor

By choosing my apps carefully and insuring I don't overload my iPad my total latency measures <6ms

Most of the iOS people I run across are synth users. Many are Loopy Pro fans

Thanks. I have an iPad but plan to use a huge collection of plugins I’ve amassed over the years for Ableton. The plugins I have and use for synth don’t have good analogues on iPadOS.

Yes, Loopy is great. I’ve had it for years, back to v.1.

 

[brianrost]

This isn’t about recording. The main question is more of people’s experience with plugin latency, and secondarily about the claim I read about perhaps not needing a reamp box.

You do not need a reamp box because you aren’t reamping. You want to use your amp as a monitor. Fine, take an output from your audio interface and plug it into your amp…done!!!!! The latency will be the same as if you were using studio monitors or headphones.

For the absolute lowest latency use as few plugins as possible, use the highest sample rate your interface and DAW support…96K, 192K even 384K...and the smallest buffer size before you start getting crackling. You'll get larger file sizes with higher sample rates but each time you double the rate, you reduce the latency by 50% and can use smaller buffers.

Some DAWs offer low latency recording modes which you can try even if you won't actually be recording.

 

[FretRiff]

You do not need a reamp box because you aren’t reamping. You want to use your amp as a monitor. Fine, take an output from your audio interface and plug it into your amp…done!!!!! The latency will be the same as if you were using studio monitors or headphones.

The issue you're is going from line level in the DAW to instrument level in the amp, which normally requires reamping. That's the general recommendation but I read one place it might not be necessary.

 

[brianrost]

The issue you're is going from line level in the DAW to instrument level in the amp, which normally requires reamping. That's the general recommendation but I read one place it might not be necessary.

It doesn't require “reamping”. It just doesn't. As I wrote before reamping implies playing a recorded track out of the DAW into a miked amp. It does not imply using an instrument amp as a monitor which is what you want to do.

Reduce the output level of the DAW, either internally or at the audio interface (or even the headphone jack on the computer) if it’s too hot. Drop 10 dB or so and it will be at a similar level to the instrument. Use your ears and save your money on a box that is nothing but a transformer and a volume knob.

If you already have the audio interface and DAW, just try it.

Thanks for all the fish.

 

[toastw]

It sounds as if you're trying to use the plug-ins as real-time effects.

That's not really the same as reamping.

If you were going to reamp, just record your track dry. Then send the signal back through to the amp and record the amp with a microphone. You can add plug-in effects to that track -- the one that recorded your direct in track played through the amp.

Edit to add: If you're going to try to run a direct signal through to your recording software, process plug-in effects, and then output through your main speakers, you WILL be dealing with latency. Those plug-ins are meant for recording not for live performance.

 

[FretRiff]

It sounds as if you're trying to use the plug-ins as real-time effects.

That's not really the same as reamping.

Yes, the idea is to use the plugins as realtime effects, but getting the signal out of the DAW and into an amp means going from line level to instrument level: hence my question about (a) plugin latency and (b) the necessity of a reamping box to get the proper level into the amp.