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Bass weight?

This thread made me recall a 5 hour gig we did back around 2007/08 for a biker event in Tehachapi CA. It was originally a 4 hour gig with 15 minute breaks but they asked us to play for an extra hour (and paid us accordingly). My already aging back and shoulders were fine because I was playing my Stambaugh ODB fiver (7.8 lbs) with a 4" leather strap.

My voice took a bit of a beating, though. At that time we had no instrumental tunes so every song had me singing lead. We had a sax player with us that evening so the solo sections were stretched out but it was still hard on my voice. I was pretty quiet on the way home afterward. Some people would consider that a blessing. :)

M. M.
 
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I'm still in great heath and excellent physical shape except for my lower back, and all I can say is that I hope your experience is different than mine. Today I won't play a bass that's over 8 lbs.

And yet I'll bet you are not a member of the Exquisite/Glarry/Burning Fire club. For shame, Joe. :)

Actually, I'm glad to see your post. I was beginning to worry. There are three or four more I have not seen a post from in far too long.
 
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It seems you don't.



You give me a 10lb bass and I'd give it right back to you. You can tell me what you want but I know what causes the pain in my back, as do all others with back issues. To call it psychosomatic pain is missing the point and insulting to people with damage and medical issues relating to their backs and shoulders.



Sadly, it appears you haven't understood anything about this subject!
Word. Wasn’t going to say anything, but since you did, I’ll add on to it and say what an insulting farce of a post. Damn right I will notice if you add a pound to my bass. And I will notice it right away. I’ll notice even a half pound. Dude doesn’t believe me? Whatever. I’m not here to please anyone but myself.
 
Have you older members, and those with health issues considered sitting down?

1024px-James_Jamerson.jpg
 
And yet I'll bet you are not a member of the Exquisite/Glarry/Burning Fire club. For shame, Joe. :)

Actually, I'm glad to see your post. I was beginning to worry. There are three or four more I have not seen a post from in far too long.

Thanks for the concern, I haven't run off anywhere though :) . Most threads nowadays have over a hundred responses before I get to them (like this one) and I don't bother responding cuz I think only 2 people will wind up reading what could take me 20 minutes to write :).

If you link to that club thread I'll check it out. I've seen the title a bunch of times but never gave any thought to what it was about.
 
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Thanks for the concern, I haven't run off anywhere though :) . Most threads nowadays have over a hundred responses before I get to them (like this one) and I don't bother responding cuz I think only 2 people will wind up reading what could take me 20 minutes to write :).

If you link to that club thread I'll check it out. I've seen the title a bunch of times but never gave any thought to what it was about.

Here is the link:

Official Exquisite/Glarry/Burning Fire Bass Club?

There are over eleven hundred pages. What it is supposed to be about is basses whose mean average weight is between six and seven pounds. However, we are a pretty free-wheeling bunch whose discussion topics careen wildly all over the place, sort of like the Keystone Kops in hot pursuit.
 
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Have you older members, and those with health issues considered sitting down?

View attachment 4581180

If I reach the point where I can play only sitting down, then some of my tosser basses will become keepers. But as long as I can play standing, I will. I will not go gently into that good night, and I intend to kick against the pricks every step of the way.
 
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Word. Wasn’t going to say anything, but since you did, I’ll add on to it and say what an insulting farce of a post. Damn right I will notice if you add a pound to my bass. And I will notice it right away. I’ll notice even a half pound. Dude doesn’t believe me? Whatever. I’m not here to please anyone but myself.

I bet you can feel the difference also. That is not the point. It is not meant to be a personal insult/challenge to anyone, rather a phenomenon that is well studied (sports, marketing, medicine).

short version: weight and perception/belief both have an effect.

i still think a majority of players wont notice a 0.5 lbs difference… done “properly.” It is all about manipulating points of reference. People on average are quite bad at detecting very small changes without a reference.

Give 100 people a red 7lbs bass and a blue 7.5 lbs bass and ask them to say which is heavier… they will almost always get it right. Why? They have a point of reference (the lighter bass).

Now give 100 people a red 7lbs bass. Then take it back and give them a blue 12lbs bass. Have them wear it a while. Now immediatly give them a different green 7 lbs bass. Ask them which was lightest. The majority will say the third bass. Why? Muscle fibre recruitment. We manipulated their nervous systems point of reference.

now give 100 people two 7 lbs bases (one red, one blue). Show them advertising videos of red and blue bases. The red bass uses only the finest of solid dense, heavy tone woods. The blue bass aims for lightweight, comfort, and balance. Now give them the red and blue bases and ask which is heavier. Vs people who were not shown the videos, mkre will pick the red bass. (I said more, not all). Even more if you delay the time between “weighing” the two bases (the longer the time between comparison… the weaker the point of reference becomes).

Lets put it another way. In the spectrum of all that causes someone *back pain* (shoulder pain is harder to hide from) in the course of four hour gig, 0.5 lbs in a bass is a significant but small part of it. It is a *real* part of it. So is strap width, strap position, bass balance, bass height, distance of your bass from your centre axis of balance (all leverage). Posture is huge. Stage material/footwear. Pre gig stretch? Did you shovel the driveway the day before? How far did someone carry that svt? All contributors. We are trying to reduce compression strain on our spine, and lateral for forces on our core. Of all the forces on a 200lbs persons core muscles/spine… what percentage of the force is 0.5lbs in a bass?

I would argue that 0.5lbs extra in a 200lbs individual is a small (but real) component in all the factors that influence comfort and pain playing a bass. bigger factor in a 100lbs player. Bigger factor in someone with chronic shoulder/back pain. Bigger factor in a longer gig.

But if 100 people go into a gig believing a bass is heavier and will cause them more pain… they are more likely to attribute any real pain they get to the effects of the “heavier” bass, even if their bass is in fact the same weight or slightly lighter than their typical bass. There are just so many factors influencing comfort. Our brain often attributes it to what we believe to be the cause.

And vice versa if the 100 players believe that the bass is lighter than it actually is. They may have more pain, but many will attribute it to some other factor.

The trick is making people believe… and weakening or removing points of reference… or inserting false points of reference.

It is a well studied and proven part of performance in sport, medicine, marketing. Most people are notoriously bad at detecting small differences if there is no point of reference.

- Cyclists climbing faster because they thought they had a lighter bike (and underperforming when they perceived they had a heavier bike)
- people almost dying of overdose on what was later found to be placebo (and almost immediately recovering when they were told)
- a majority of people saying the 100$ bottle of wine tastes better than the 10$ bottle when in fact they were reversed. Reverse them again and people still say the one they perceive to be better (cost)… as better.
- pain reactions being directly increased with anxiety/expectation of pain, even in a painless or low pain stimuli.

the human mind is a complex and amazing thing. A lot of our personal reality is what we believe.
 
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I bet you can feel the difference also. That is not the point. It is not meant to be a personal insult/challenge to anyone, rather a phenomenon that is well studied (sports, marketing, medicine).

short version: weight and perception/belief both have an effect.

i still think a majority of players wont notice a 0.5 lbs difference… done “properly.” It is all about manipulating points of reference. People on average are quite bad at detecting very small changes without a reference.

Give 100 people a red 7lbs bass and a blue 7.5 lbs bass and ask them to say which is heavier… they will almost always get it right. Why? They have a point of reference (the lighter bass).

Now give 100 people a red 7lbs bass. Then take it back and give them a blue 12lbs bass. Have them wear it a while. Now immediatly give them a different green 7 lbs bass. Ask them which was lightest. The majority will say the third bass. Why? Muscle fibre recruitment. We manipulated their nervous systems point of reference.

now give 100 people two 7 lbs bases (one red, one blue). Show them advertising videos of red and blue bases. The red bass uses only the finest of solid dense, heavy tone woods. The blue bass aims for lightweight, comfort, and balance. Now give them the red and blue bases and ask which is heavier. Vs people who were not shown the videos, mkre will pick the red bass. (I said more, not all). Even more if you delay the time between “weighing” the two bases (the longer the time between comparison… the weaker the point of reference becomes).

Lets put it another way. In the spectrum of all that causes someone *back pain* (shoulder pain is harder to hide from) in the course of four hour gig, 0.5 lbs in a bass is a significant but small part of it. It is a *real* part of it. So is strap width, strap position, bass balance, bass height, distance of your bass from your centre axis of balance (all leverage). Posture is huge. Stage material/footwear. Pre gig stretch? Did you shovel the driveway the day before? How far did someone carry that svt? All contributors. We are trying to reduce compression strain on our spine, and lateral for forces on our core. Of all the forces on a 200lbs persons core muscles/spine… what percentage of the force is 0.5lbs in a bass?

I would argue that 0.5lbs extra in a 200lbs individual is a small (but real) component in all the factors that influence comfort and pain playing a bass. bigger factor in a 100lbs player. Bigger factor in someone with chronic shoulder/back pain. Bigger factor in a longer gig.

But if 100 people go into a gig believing a bass is heavier and will cause them more pain… they are more likely to attribute any real pain they get to the effects of the “heavier” bass, even if their bass is in fact the same weight or slightly lighter than their typical bass. There are just so many factors influencing comfort. Our brain often attributes it to what we believe to be the cause.

And vice versa if the 100 players believe that the bass is lighter than it actually is. They may have more pain, but many will attribute it to some other factor.

The trick is making people believe… and weakening or removing points of reference… or inserting false points of reference.

It is a well studied and proven part of performance in sport, medicine, marketing. Most people are notoriously bad at detecting small differences if there is no point of reference.

- Cyclists climbing faster because they thought they had a lighter bike (and underperforming when they perceived they had a heavier bike)
- people almost dying of overdose on what was later found to be placebo (and almost immediately recovering when they were told)
- a majority of people saying the 100$ bottle of wine tastes better than the 10$ bottle when in fact they were reversed. Reverse them again and people still say the one they perceive to be better (cost)… as better.
- pain reactions being directly increased with anxiety/expectation of pain, even in a painless or low pain stimuli.

the human mind is a complex and amazing thing. A lot of our personal reality is what we believe.
Well since my pains are in the shoulder, there you go.
 
Well since my pains are in the shoulder, there you go.
For sure. Harder to “trick” that. Cause the shoulder takes the larger weight burden. But i could still fool your shoulder for a little while with the red/blue/green bass scenario, and belief would still influence your attribution of pain if i could sneak 0.5lbs into your bass one day. “There is no way that jerk could have slipped 0.5lbs into my bass… he does not even know who i am! Maybe it was lifting that SVT…”

Off topic but i do cycle. We like to sneak ball bearings into the hollow handle bars of each others bikes now and then. Many riders are very aware of their bikes… but it drives them crazy until they finally figure out what it is. Usually takes half a ride. The trick is to coat them in grease so they only move with larger bumps.

maybe i will start sneaking weights into the guitarists guitar… and see how long it takes (and how much weight) until he figures it out. :-D
 
I am 51 and been playin for over 30 years... is that old enough or long enough lol?

I'm almost 70 and I've been playing music for over 60 years and bass for over 50 years and I know there's a lot I still don't understand.

One thing I do understand is a lighter bass is better for me as long as it's well balanced.

My accordion weighed in at nearly 30 lbs. I no longer play it.
 
Weed is legal in most of the US now, this is how they do it. Next you'll tell us we should go back to finger measurements for that stuff.
That tok an unexpected turn. Firstly i am not telling anyone what they should do. If four percent of the worlds population wants to keep their own spesial system for measurements, i will defend their right to do so. It is just that the rest of us have agreed to use a better system. Just trying to help.
Secondly i would think that if you are doing,buying or selling drugs it would be wise to use a better unit of measure than "fingers". I surely would suggest "grams" as a base unit. mg, g, hg and kg respectively, depending on what suits the purpose best.
 
I can understand there are historic reasons to use the original specs like "34 inch scale length" and such, but for weight it should not be necessary. Not to be rude, but in 2022 who needs lb and oz?
Check this out: International System of Units - Wikipedia

Pardon the momentary derail:

Most if not all of us learned SI in elementary school and were told the US would to convert years ago. I heard about it in the 70's and I can only assume there are others here who have heard about it long before then. Currently we have metric wrenches, rulers, measuring cups with both oz. and liter, cars have both miles and kilometers, we use watts, ohms, hertz; so it's not like we don't use SI today. Also many US scientists and other organizations have switched to SI.

IMHO, the question isn't who needs lbs. and oz.? The question is, who has the money to fight US Industrialists to change it and who wants to absorb the financial impact it will cost companies to convert? With the current impact of inflation, none of us need to have our cost of living jacked up by companies passing on the cost of converting to SI. Do any of the other 192 countries on SI want to help absorb that cost?

Back to your original question.

Our representatives in Congress proposed the US transition to SI years ago. US factories already having equipment with the old system of measurement wanted to avoid the cost of overhauling their equipment, so they used their influence to stop Congress from adopting SI. And that's the hill that SI died on.
 

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