Bass Weight

[Dincrest]

I dunno... a lot of Fender-style basses I see on Sweetwater and the classifieds exceed 9 pounds.

Heck, my Fender Aerodyne (with its slimmer, downsized, basswood Jazz body) is in the 9 pound ballpark... which is not heavy per se, but could be considered heavy by Aerodyne standards (since those are reputed to be lighter weight instruments). The way the bass balances on a strap (I use a wide leather strap) while standing makes the bass feel lighter. I've heard that some Aerodynes can neck dive (given the light basswood bodies), but mine doesn't because the body is a little heavier than your average Aerodyne.

As for weight and tone... I'm not sure if it makes as much of a difference as we think. I've played light basses that were very resonant and I've played boat-anchor basses whose tone was very "dead."

And weight isn't everything. A bass with a compact body and 24-fret neck might make my shoulder happy, but reaching the money notes might be a stretch. My Aerodyne and my ESP/LTD are both 34" scale basses around the 9 pound mark, but because the LTD has a compact body and 24-fret neck, the money notes feel further away than on my 20-fret Aerodyne with a larger body.

Weight is important, though. I once had a 6-string that balanced beautifully, the money notes were easy to reach, the fingerboard was easy to navigate (it didn't feel like a runway), the low B was incredible (bass was 34" scale)... but at over 12.5 pounds, I could not shoulder it for more than 40 minutes without it aching. Were that bass a couple pounds lighter...

 

[Minimalist]

A nice strap helps if your shoulder is sensitive. It doesn’t do a thing for the weight and torque that a heavy bass puts on your back.

You are probably right looking only at physics but our bodies work a bit different. Less focus and energy needed for supporting your shoulder means you have more energy and focus for your back.

 

[Ostie]

Not all P or J basses are 8 to 9 lbs. Weight is another feature of the instrument that matters to some people and unlike many other attributes it can not be seen so it has to be listed.

A few years ago I ran across a Squier II P bass made in India. It was the heaviest P bass I’ve ever hefted. I had no way to weigh it, but everybody in the shop and myself agreed that it had to be at least 12 lbs, probably more. I did not plug it in because I have no interest in a bass that heavy. I’ve always wondered if it was a unicorn, or if all the Squier II were that heavy? No idea what species the body was made from.

 

[Minimalist]

Not even close. I have built 4 string basses as light as 6.6 pounds. My 5 string jazz is 7.3

If you want to understand what controls sustain (the thing that "heavier" is alleged to help), you need to first understand the Physics of what's going on. When you pluck a string, there is a certain amount of energy in that string. Anytime energy leaves the string, you reduce sustain. People that talk about "coupling energy into the body" have it precisely backwards - if you efficiently couple the energy of the string into the body or neck, you take away ALL the sustain. For sustain to happen, the energy has to remain in the string - the goal is to keep the energy in the string.

OK, to keep energy in the string, what do you do? Well, first, there are three places the string loses energy. First is into the air - the string does lose a bit of energy directly vibrating the air around it. But, you can't do anything about that, assuming you are going to play in places with air, so let's set that aside.

The other two places are the ends of the string. For energy to remain in the string, you want the "end conditions" of the string to be infinitely stiff and infinitely massive. Neither of those is strictly true, so let's take off our Physicist's hats and put on our Engineer's caps. There are (as said before) two ends to the string. Neither is special - both contribute equally to keeping (or losing energy) - if they are the same. Are they the same?

OK, if you[re thinking along with me, you probably realize the two ends of the string are not the same. On one end, the string is anchored in a massive block of metal, and that is screwed to a massive block of wood. On the other end, your finger (which is not all that stiff) is holding the string against a tiny metal strip, and that is anchored in a relatively thin piece of wood. Where are the most losses going to occur? Yes, that's right, at the neck/fret end of the string. Dead spots (when you have very little sustain) occur because at that point, and at that frequency, energy does couple into the neck well - it leaves the string, and goes into the neck (some of it subsequently goes into the body through the neck). For other notes, the situation is not as severe, but the fret/neck end of the string is where the most losses occur. So, if you want more sustain you fix the problem end, you don't work on the end where the problem isn't. A heavier, stiffer body isn't the solution. A heavier, stiffer bridge also isn't the solution. A heavier, stiffer neck is. Pick up a bunch of J basses (with thin necks). Play them. Then go and pick up some 5's with big necks (a thicker neck is more massive and much stiffer - the geometry gives you stiffness as well as mass). Play those. Note which has more sustain.

I build my own basses. They are 5 strings - all under 8 pounds. Light bridges, light bodies, the necks are thick (made with roasted maple), they have graphite rods making them stiffer (roasting the maple also makes them stiffer). I work on other people's basses (not a lot, but a few here and there, and some of them have "noodle necks" - skinny Ibanez's and the like. A good thick, stiff neck is what you want for good sustain.

A neck with more mass sounds more "massive" in my experience. It can be compensated with EQ but that is one of the reasons I like 5 strings. I would also think that what you describe is the reason that laminated necks tend to have more sustain.

 

[ardgedee]

You are probably right looking only at physics but our bodies work a bit different. Less focus and energy needed for supporting your shoulder means you have more energy and focus for your back.

Depends on what the player's physical issues are. Somebody with lower spine issues, or problems with their back or abdominal muscles, won't be able to deal with a heavy bass and the strap isn't a factor. You're putting a ten ton truck on a bridge rated for five tons, and that's too heavy no matter how good the truck is.

 

[coyote1]

I’ve always felt that if you’re paying premium for a custom instrument, it should weigh a lot. I cannot imagine paying $4500 for a bass that weighs the same as a small box of Corn Flakes. Just doesn’t seem right somehow

 

[LowWay]

I had a body ravaged by lupus at one point. Nerve damage, muscle loss, arthritis everywhere. I couldn’t play anything above 7 pounds. The lupus was medication induced, and I’ve mostly recovered. Despite this I play 30” basses under 7 pounds now. I have a lovely collection of basses between 6.5 and 7 pounds. It kept me playing through some rough times that lined up with the pandemic lockdown.

 

[LowWay]

All under 7 pounds, sound great, balance perfectly:

 

[Minimalist]

Depends on what the player's physical issues are. Somebody with lower spine issues, or problems with their back or abdominal muscles, won't be able to deal with a heavy bass and the strap isn't a factor. You're putting a ten ton truck on a bridge rated for five tons, and that's too heavy no matter how good the truck is.

True....

 

[DrBnz]

Oh no. weight on a jazz bass can be anything from 8 to 11 lbs. Now weight is important to me, and I typically won't even consider a bass weighing more than 9.4. But as I get more and more experience I realize that balance is even more important (to me). I have straps that can absorb the weight, but if I have to hold the neck up constantly that requires a whole new playing style as one or both of your arms are holding up the neck. Which often means I'm not as clean with some of the fast stuff and I tend to get tired a lot sooner. Asking a seller if a bass has neck dive isn't going to give you the best results. So often I'll ask the weight. If I know it has a fat neck (54 P-bass) and they tell me it only weighs 8.5 lbs I'd highly suspect that it has neck dive and I'd pass.

 

[EliasA]

And weight isn't everything. A bass with a compact body and 24-fret neck might make my shoulder happy, but reaching the money notes might be a stretch. My Aerodyne and my ESP/LTD are both 34" scale basses around the 9 pound mark, but because the LTD has a compact body and 24-fret neck, the money notes feel further away than on my 20-fret Aerodyne with a larger body.

This is incredibly true. Eventually, certain bassists come to realize that their best bass looks like them...you can guess my build based on my24 fret Ibanez.

 

[JRA]

...does the weight of the instrument effect anything other than the comfort of the player?

IME/IMO = no! an uber-lightweight ax with the right construction attributes (per @micguy's posts) will sound just as mean as a heavyweight if the most important variables are in order (per @Gilmourisgod posts).

i wish i had been more knowledgeable when i was coming up. like @ardgedee and friends, all of us believed heavier weights resulted in better tones. if i had known then what i've learned here = i would have been playing lighter axes all along... despite the adonis-like physique i sported in my youth!

presently, 7 of my axes have paulownia bodies, and the weights of those instruments range from 6.0 to 7.2 lbs. --- some real lightweights --- all with killer tones!*

* of them, the axes that sound the best to me have 'pricier' pickups: SD quarter pounders, EMG actives, bartolinis, etc.

 

[J-Bass RMR]

Can we agree that all Jazz and Pbasses are all between 8-9lbs

The majority of P-Basses fall within 8-9lbs, but heavier Ps are not uncommon.
Jazz Basses tend to weigh in at 9lbs - 10lbs. Less than 9lbs historically was pretty good for a Jazz.
(I swear - almost every Jazz I've owned is 9lbs 6oz!)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The problem with WEIGHT threads is they tend to end up like Relic threads.
Relics and Weight are both physical attributes of an instrument.

It matters to some, and some don't care* - or more accurately; we all have our preferences*.
And, ultimately, I end up being referred to as an eejit for not wanting another 10 1/2 lb Precision. (Uh, he's already got one - you see!?)

When selling a used bass, it only makes sense to list as much detail as possible to eliminate any "surprises" for the buyer.
It will make for a much smoother transaction, and - as some have so elegantly stated - it saves a seller time (and possibly money) in the long
run by eliminating the portion of the market not interested in a bass that exceeds a certain weight.

As a seller or buyer, I want to eliminate - as much as possible - any chance of a "surprise".
(and it's so simple to eliminate the "weight" issue by disclosing it...)

*I doubt very few people here are interested in a 11lb + P-bass.


Why do you think i have this outrageous accent!?

 

[lug]

I get that heavier basses and longer gigs aren't the best combination...can you imagine doing a 4hr set with a T-40... but does the weight of the instrument effect anything other than the comfort of the player? About 5yrs ago I started using Jazz basses instead of my favorite Stingray 5 with a wedding band I've played in for years bc it was common to do a 3-4hr set with no breaks. But other than my own ability to stand upright in my elder years, I don't know of another reason. But I see a weight attached to pretty much every bass for sale. Can we agree that all Jazz and Pbasses are all between 8-9lbs. Or am I missing something, which is entirely possible. And I apologize if this thread is already on here somewhere. As long as this forum has been around I doubt there are many topics left that haven't been discussed.

I gigged 4 hours with one of my T40's just recently. I am STILL alive! Of course it was my lighter T40.............

 

[jd56hawk]

I have a G&L L2000...7.3 lbs.
I've seen P and J basses from G&L that weigh the same.
I'd have to imagine other companies must have basses in the same weight category.

 

[mambo4]

does the weight of the instrument effect anything other than the comfort of the player?

Not enough to worry about, in my experience.

. Can we agree that all Jazz and Pbasses are all between 8-9lbs.

No. My Lull MV4 ( Jazz ) is 7.5 lbs. Once I realized an instrument can weigh that little and sound that good I jettisoned all concerns about weight impacting tone.

 

[groove pump]

Not even close. I have built 4 string basses as light as 6.6 pounds. My 5 string jazz is 7.3

If you want to understand what controls sustain (the thing that "heavier" is alleged to help), you need to first understand the Physics of what's going on. When you pluck a string, there is a certain amount of energy in that string. Anytime energy leaves the string, you reduce sustain. People that talk about "coupling energy into the body" have it precisely backwards - if you efficiently couple the energy of the string into the body or neck, you take away ALL the sustain. For sustain to happen, the energy has to remain in the string - the goal is to keep the energy in the string.

OK, to keep energy in the string, what do you do? Well, first, there are three places the string loses energy. First is into the air - the string does lose a bit of energy directly vibrating the air around it. But, you can't do anything about that, assuming you are going to play in places with air, so let's set that aside.

The other two places are the ends of the string. For energy to remain in the string, you want the "end conditions" of the string to be infinitely stiff and infinitely massive. Neither of those is strictly true, so let's take off our Physicist's hats and put on our Engineer's caps. There are (as said before) two ends to the string. Neither is special - both contribute equally to keeping (or losing energy) - if they are the same. Are they the same?

OK, if you[re thinking along with me, you probably realize the two ends of the string are not the same. On one end, the string is anchored in a massive block of metal, and that is screwed to a massive block of wood. On the other end, your finger (which is not all that stiff) is holding the string against a tiny metal strip, and that is anchored in a relatively thin piece of wood. Where are the most losses going to occur? Yes, that's right, at the neck/fret end of the string. Dead spots (when you have very little sustain) occur because at that point, and at that frequency, energy does couple into the neck well - it leaves the string, and goes into the neck (some of it subsequently goes into the body through the neck). For other notes, the situation is not as severe, but the fret/neck end of the string is where the most losses occur. So, if you want more sustain you fix the problem end, you don't work on the end where the problem isn't. A heavier, stiffer body isn't the solution. A heavier, stiffer bridge also isn't the solution. A heavier, stiffer neck is. Pick up a bunch of J basses (with thin necks). Play them. Then go and pick up some 5's with big necks (a thicker neck is more massive and much stiffer - the geometry gives you stiffness as well as mass). Play those. Note which has more sustain.

I build my own basses. They are 5 strings - all under 8 pounds. Light bridges, light bodies, the necks are thick (made with roasted maple), they have graphite rods making them stiffer (roasting the maple also makes them stiffer). I work on other people's basses (not a lot, but a few here and there, and some of them have "noodle necks" - skinny Ibanez's and the like. A good thick, stiff neck is what you want for good sustain.

My observations through the years support this. I had a heavy Warmoth neck in a 4-string parts Jazz some years ago that included the steel reinforcing rods instead of graphite and the "solidness" of that neck really became home-sweet-home for me. Many lighter instruments I've tried in recent years have given me that impression of the neck being too soft and flimsy - not enough backbone to let the strings shake against them.

I often wonder about whether this sustain issue isn't entirely about sound. I think that a lot of it is about what we feel in terms of an instrument's response when we play it. A lighter, not-so-solid feeling neck can be a real turn-off when I perceive a dullness when I pluck a string compared with something else with a rock-solid neck. It typically feels like the solid neck more readily lets the sound fly out of the instrument when I play the same note. Does what comes out of my amp sound different? I really don't know.

The project I'm considering these days is to find a 5-string with with a cozy layout for my hands (and shoulder) and convert that to a 4-string. I've bought two or three different 5-strings through the years and I just haven't found my way with any of them. But that substantial neck does seem to provide a more solid foundation, even when the neck materials aren't especially dense and weighty. Rob Elrick seems to have gotten this right with his NJS basses, including the Cort models. Those are essentially modern J-basses, but the 4-string models have necks with more of a P-bass width and chuny-ness. Not super hefty, but nicely solid and responsive.

 

[Makten]

I tend to prefer lighter instruments because they often sound more "open" and "acoustic". Handling-wise it's just a bonus with less weight. I care a lot less about sustain than attack/punch or whatever you want to call it.

 

[facetsquared]

Compared to weight, it is neck dive that is the killer for me. I have a Jazz bass that in the 9.5 lb range and swapping out the stock tuners for Resolites made a huge difference.

It does appear that weight is the main question on most players’ lips - I lost count of the borderline obnoxious “weight?” questions about the StingRay Retro 70s I just sold, as well as the “nah, too heavy, I need lighter” when I replied with 10.2lbs. It balanced far better than any Fender bass I have, so I honestly did not notice the extra few ounces of weight.

 

[Jazzdogg]

www.comfortstrapp.com this makes playing heavier basses easy

I bought a Comfort Strapp for each of my basses. They make it easier to balance on a strap. Lack of neck dive and ergonomic body contours can all make a difference. But, I've found that none of these design considerations can make a bass that's too heavy more desirable.