basses for newbies (SX batch build thread)

[chunger]

I'm not sure if tone changed significantly with the Gotoh 201. I'm sure it shifted some, but the main area that improved was playability. Because #3 gets so much play time, I found that there were little arc-shaped indentations in the base plate of the stock bridge where the E string saddles contact. This indicates that under playing conditions, the saddle does move, and that's the area where Jasaman felt the most distinct difference. The solid bridge gives him the ability to dig in a bit better without the bass feeling shifty.

I will get some data on the difference between stock bridge and Gotoh 201, but a lot of things were changed at the same time, so it won't be a great A/B.

1. pots were changed to 500K
2. Bridge was changed
3. Nut was changed
4. Setup was changed
5. Tone cap was changed

 

[chunger]

Fantastic Voyage Bass #6 (stock SX bridge pup, GFS p-bass neck pup played in series mode)
<a href="http://tindeck.com/listen/qryu"><img src="http://tindeck.com/image/qryu/stats.png" border=0></a>

Fantastic Voyage Bass #7 (SX p-bass stock Nordstrand NP4)
<a href="http://tindeck.com/listen/tevw"><img src="http://tindeck.com/image/tevw/stats.png" border=0></a>

What's going on Bass #6
<a href="http://tindeck.com/listen/kzdd"><img src="http://tindeck.com/image/kzdd/stats.png" border=0></a>

What's going on Bass #7
<a href="http://tindeck.com/listen/xtob"><img src="http://tindeck.com/image/xtob/stats.png" border=0></a>

I haven't had much time lately to do any bass work, but it seems #6 is sold. I dropped it off last night at one of Jasaman's gigs for some testing in the wild as well as to show to one of his drummer friends who wanted to start playing bass. . . he played it. . . end of story. The action on #6 is the best I've been able to produce so far. The thing almost plays itself

I was getting a little down lately because setup on #8 is really not up to my standards and I'm going to have to go back in and re-visit the fretwork and try to sort that out. . . also, there's been a bit of a lull in interest in these basses with students preferring to buy shiny new [insert brand] instruments instead of some "used no-name bass" some guy has mucked with. So, it's intriguing that the majority of the enthusiasm thus far is with professionals and the majority of these instruments are ending up in the hands of professionals.

#5, however is going out for a test drive soon by a student. That usually seals the deal, so I'm optimistic about that. Also, Jasaman was teaching a student yesterday, and she was trying out some basses. . . #3, good. .. . #5. . . good, and then, just randomly, Jasaman pulled out #8 with caveats that it's not quite ready for prime time, etc, etc. . . she gets on that thing and connects instantly. Tone and playing are the best she's ever done. It's a bit of a mystery. I finally get to a point where I think I know a thing or 2 about setup and start to impose my opinions through builds and setups on students and other people, and something like this happens that makes me realize I may not actually know as much as I think after all.

Jasaman had another encounter this week with a young bass player who play URB and was looking to transition a bit more to electric. He sat in for a little while on #3 and was in a bit of shock after playing it for a short while. His initial response was something to the effect of, "What the h@ll is this thing?" "Is it a high $$ custom Fender?" Jasaman had a lot of explaining to do.

At any rate, this series of events and a couple of sales makes me optimistic again about the project that I'm committed to for at least ~10 more basses. With price creep and all the other issues, I was getting a bit down, but I think I'm still on the right track. I'll continue under the initial premise that if I can get people to play these things, eyes will be opened, and there should be no problem selling the remaining builds.

So, just when I thought I had built up a little bit of inventory, all current instruments with the exception of #7 have strong potential buyers or are sold. #9 is the pass-around bass. . . maybe more buzz is not what's necessary, but I'm super curious to get outside feedback.

 

[wideyes]

Keep it up, 'Chung! Thanks for the samples, will listen when I get home from work

 

[selowitch]

\He sat in for a little while on #3 and was in a bit of shock after playing it for a short while. His initial response was something to the effect of, "What the h@ll is this thing?" "Is it a high $$ custom Fender?" Jasaman had a lot of explaining to do.

LOL. It goes to show ya. Take a couple of decent pieces of alder, cut 'em in the shape of a Fender, spritz some finish on 'em, and send 'em to this guy in California. He'll set them up properly, redo the electronics, work on the frets a bit, put in them thar threaded inserts, and *bango* -- you got yourself a great instrument.

If only all production instruments got this level of TLC!

Call them ChinaChungers!

BTW, I really would love to see you try the EMG Select pickups. StewMac has 'em cheap, they're passive and they sound great of my shortscale Rondo P. Really. Link Removed.

 

[PrietoBass]

"Chungified SXs" are now part of popular culture.

I can see it: "101 Ways to Chungify Your SX", a DIY howto book listing Chunger's bass mods, making the best selling list on Amazon, and forcing the Chinese to re-evaluate their cheap bass price point...

 

[wideyes]

Damn you Chunger, driving up the prices on Chinese goods!

 

[chunger]

I think the Chinese are having a competition. . . how much stuff can you do wrong and still come out with a great sounding bass?

If they ever figure out a way to produce a reasonably reliable Plek machine copy for under $10,000, I think the game will be over.

If only all production instruments got this level of TLC!

. . . then we wouldn't have any more cheap production basses to buy

 

[Moronicus]

I've been following this thread for some time now and Chunger has given me the inspiration to "Chungify" my SX J and SX P bass.

I'm just glad that you've finally found time to continue the thread cos' I believe most of us here probably think (and know) that you're getting tired from trying to do so much (modifying basses, testing, recording...bla bla bla) with the time you have available. Pls keep up the good work and spread the Gospel of Chung.

On another note, it's funny how you guys in the States are boycotting the new Ursa neck while we in Malaysia (north of Singapore, South of Thailand) haven't even seen an Ursa. I can still buy the old Fender type headstock as well as the fish-hook type both nuclear orange tint and satin finishes. Prices here are higher than Rondo tho'.

 

[LittleFish]

Hey y'all. I've been following this thread for quite a bit now. I'm actually a sort-of beginner bassist and my first bass was a squier VM jazz bass, which has done wonders for me. Right now I'm thinking of buying a new bass, and this thread kinda gave me an idea on one of the "cheap" options to get a bass with great playability.

Moronicus: I'm also from Malaysia and pleasantly surprised to find a fellow countryman posting on talkbass.com, so Hi there . Where can you find an SX bass in Malaysia? 'Coz I was thinking of picking up an SX J-bass soon. Thanks mate.

 

[chunger]

Hey y'all. I've been following this thread for quite a bit now. I'm actually a sort-of beginner bassist and my first bass was a squier VM jazz bass, which has done wonders for me. Right now I'm thinking of buying a new bass, and this thread kinda gave me an idea on one of the "cheap" options to get a bass with great playability.

Moronicus: I'm also from Malaysia and pleasantly surprised to find a fellow countryman posting on talkbass.com, so Hi there . Where can you find an SX bass in Malaysia? 'Coz I was thinking of picking up an SX J-bass soon. Thanks mate.

I do not have personal experience, but a lot of people on this thread seem to indicate that the Squire VM jazz bass is an excellent bass. It could very well be put together better than an SX. If you like the bass you have, it might be a good idea to focus your efforts on getting your VM worked on.

The only advantages I see in the SX bass over squier or Fender are cost and thicker neck profile. In my opinion judging from the MIM fender, all other aspects of the Fender are superior.

The neck profile, however is very significant for tone.

 

[LittleFish]

I do not have personal experience, but a lot of people on this thread seem to indicate that the Squire VM jazz bass is an excellent bass. It could very well be put together better than an SX. If you like the bass you have, it might be a good idea to focus your efforts on getting your VM worked on.

The only advantages I see in the SX bass over squier or Fender are cost and thicker neck profile. In my opinion judging from the MIM fender, all other aspects of the Fender are superior.

The neck profile, however is very significant for tone.

I'm actually a student in the USA, and I "found" the VM bass when the assistant at my local GC recommended me to buy it. At that time, I didn't know anything at all about basses, so I played with it a bit, loved the color and bought it right away. Like I mentioned before, in my amateur-ish opinion, it plays well, considering for what I paid for it (around 270~280 USD).

However, after playing the bass for a while (around 8 months or so), I noticed that it seems to have some fret buzz, especially on the 12~14th fret of the E string. I am now considering making modifications to the bass and will probably send it over to a tech and have him take a look at my bass, simply because I lack the necessary information and experience to modify it by myself.

Do you think I should get my tech to straight away make modifications similar to your extremely detailed and elaborate ones (shielding, leveling etc.), or do you think I should probably start with less fancy stuff (truss rod adjustments, saddle height) first?

Thanks for your opinion. Greatly appreciated. Loving this thread.

 

[selowitch]

Do you think I should get my tech to straight away make modifications similar to your extremely detailed and elaborate ones (shielding, leveling etc.), or do you think I should probably start with less fancy stuff (truss rod adjustments, saddle height) first?

You've answered your own question. The fret buzz probably results from the neck altering its shape slightly with changes in humidity. Your tech can probably fix the problem by adjusting the truss rod and/or the bridge saddles with minimal effort. There could be a high fret or something, but that's less likely. Just ask the tech.

 

[LittleFish]

You've answered your own question. The fret buzz probably results from the neck altering its shape slightly with changes in humidity. Your tech can probably fix the problem by adjusting the truss rod and/or the bridge saddles with minimal effort. There could be a high fret or something, but that's less likely. Just ask the tech.

Oh ok. Makes sense to me. Thanks. Just curious though, in what circumstance would you consider shielding/leveling/etc the bass. How do they help with the tone/sound/feel of the bass, that simple modifications aren't able to accomplish?

 

[selowitch]

Oh ok. Makes sense to me. Thanks. Just curious though, in what circumstance would you consider shielding/leveling/etc the bass. How do they help with the tone/sound/feel of the bass, that simple modifications aren't able to accomplish?

Shielding probably can't hurt so if you want to buy copper tape or shielding paint, go for it. It only really helps if you have noticeable EM interference, but you won't do any harm. Just be careful not to cut yourself with the foil (latex gloves are a good idea). Leveling is not a DIY job for a noob and is only needed if you know you have a problem with unlevel frets. Unless you're super-motivated like Chunger, I say do as little ad possible to your bass and spend your time playing it.

You can read threads like this for fun during your time off from practicing and jamming/rehearsing.

 

[chunger]

Ok. . . your main problem is fret buzz. . . yes, you can take it to a tech, but it seems the good ones are few and far between. I'd tend to trust my own hands. Go to the FAQ's in this forum and read the articles on setup and truss rod adjustment. All it takes is some very simple tools and you can learn how to optimize what you have already on the cheap. . . if that is still not to your liking, you can consider getting fretwork done.

You will need:

1. allan key that fits your bridge saddles
2. Wrench that fits your truss rod
3. business card
4. ruler with mm markings
5. sharp pencil

take the business card and ruler. . . mark on one corner about 6 hash marks in 1mm increments beginning at the edge of the corner. You will be holding this business card to the 12th fret and measuring the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of the string.

(Sorry. . . I'm at work, or else I would be taking pictures of this)

First thing is this. . . let's see what your action is right now on your bass. Without doing anything, how high are your strings at the 12th fret? "reasonable" would be somewhere between 2 and 3.5mm.

Next, fret the bass at the 1st fret and ~the 14-18th fret. Using the string as a straight edge, check and see how much bow is in the neck. I do this by eyeball and feel, but the neck should be somewhere between almost straight. . . to at max 1mm of bow. If you need a specific reference point, check this measurement at the 6th fret.

Get that info first so we have an idea if there is a major problem, and we can try to walk you step by step through the setup process.

 

[mulchor]

Oh ok. Makes sense to me. Thanks. Just curious though, in what circumstance would you consider shielding/leveling/etc the bass. How do they help with the tone/sound/feel of the bass, that simple modifications aren't able to accomplish?

Good question.

I think for me, tweaking is fun. Getting an instrument properly set-up is fun.

For wiring, I've run shielded and unshielded, and as long as an instrument is properly wired, it's really hard to hear a difference (I'll admit impossible for me to hear in the ones I've done). But it looks beautiful on the inside, and you have the confidence that it's done "to code." Cheap, easy, and lets you use your soldering iron.

Fret leveling is something that kinda scares me. It's like refinishing hardwood floors. You can only do it a couple times before you've go too deep, and it's something that could be messed up.

Chunger here obviously has a passion for doing good work. I'm afraid if I tried his approach with the frets that I'd start daydreaming at the wrong time and have to completely refret or replace.

 

[Billy K]

I am in Tokyo now and saw Fender guitars made in Japan they were a different shape than the Fender American. Kinda cool looking.Cheap indeed.My wife said I could buy one I am trying to see the duty cost . They do look very cool. one would never know it was Fender if the name wasn't on it.Chung do you know anything about these bass guitars? I am here 5 more days would like to get some feedback on them

 

[chunger]

Interesting side note:

Does the the honey burst 5 string bass in the Mono double gig bag picture look familiar? It's my "actual #3" scratch build that I gave my friend . . . . modeling gig bags

http://www.monocase.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=4&idproduct=68

Ok. . . a little bit of OT before I get back to the scheduled programming. . . single coil hum like crazy on my friend Marc's prototype guitar (from Marcelo Guitars). He gave me pizza, so I shielded it for him as best I could. I really have no clue what to do around a tremelo. Luckily I had the wits to stuff some plastic under the bridge while I was loosening the strings.

Jim C from the forum here really bailed me out. . . I got much needed re-supply package in the mail today --> 1 1/2" SS screws. I was completely out.

and while I'm sending out thank-you's to folks on forum who have been super supportive, Jo6Pak sent me an email a while back offering to "donate some wood" for my builds. I sent him some money for shipping, and here's what came in the mail.. . frickin' awesome.

He then proceeded to email me and let me know he was selling a couple of his SX projects before putting them up on Craigslist, so I had a chance to snap them up. Hopefully I'll do these justice. They are really well cared for instruments.

In other news, this tool has been working really great. I've been able to have much better control of my soldering. If it holds up in terms of durability, I think it's a real winner at ~$60 on Amazon.

I'm slowly but surely trying to work my way to the bottom of this stack right now Lots of great stuff in there.

Not the least of which is #9 . . . rockin'

 

[Moronicus]

Hey y'all. I've been following this thread for quite a bit now. I'm actually a sort-of beginner bassist and my first bass was a squier VM jazz bass, which has done wonders for me. Right now I'm thinking of buying a new bass, and this thread kinda gave me an idea on one of the "cheap" options to get a bass with great playability.

Moronicus: I'm also from Malaysia and pleasantly surprised to find a fellow countryman posting on talkbass.com, so Hi there . Where can you find an SX bass in Malaysia? 'Coz I was thinking of picking up an SX J-bass soon. Thanks mate.

Hi LittleFish. There are a few shops selling SX products in Malaysia but the big player with the most selection is Woh Fatt Music Store in KL city, Pudu to be exact. Happy shopping when you're back!

 

[chunger]

I am in Tokyo now and saw Fender guitars made in Japan they were a different shape than the Fender American. Kinda cool looking.Cheap indeed.My wife said I could buy one I am trying to see the duty cost . They do look very cool. one would never know it was Fender if the name wasn't on it.Chung do you know anything about these bass guitars? I am here 5 more days would like to get some feedback on them

Hey Billy K. . . I am unfortunately not very knowledgeable about the various Fender models in production domestic and overseas. Might try taking a picture and posting in the general forum.