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Bassists Are Their Own Worst Enemies

#61
I always considered "locking in" to mean syncing up with the drummer whether he has good time or not. I've played a lot of jams and there's a bunch of drummers out there who just don't have the basic time-keeping skills or they have a particular quirky little swing thing happening when it probably shouldn't.

Now, I'm not going to claim that a good bassist can fix a bad drummer, but if the bassist can "lock" to the same timing irregularities as the drummer it will suck a lot less. I believe in some cases this requires some form of ESP.


As for groove, I'm in 100% agreement with you. Some music is groovy and some isn't. That doesn't mean it's bad music though. Just that chicks won't wiggle their butts to it.

What have you got against making chicks butts wiggle?
 
#62
I think you've got to stay "in the pocket"

What is the pocket? I think most people mistake the pocket for playing the simplest possible lines. But then you hear about guys that play really busy bass lines but they are still "totally in the pocket".

I think the pocket is really just being "good".

if you are good you can be busy. If you suck and you try to be busy, it will sound like a whole lotta suck.

Listen to pino palladino on "who did you think I was" by john mayer for a prime example of running all over the damn fret board and sounding awesome
 
#63
Tupac said:
I.

KNOW!

I was just thinking about making a thread like this. NEVER, in ANY of the instruments or hobbies I've played and been around numerous people with, have I ever heard anyone take pride in underachieving other than bass. It just boggles my mind that people will actually limit themselves like this. They bash the players that just want to be good at what they do, meanwhile guys like DavidSinRocks are out there making names for themselves.
Click to expand...

what do you mean by underachieving?
 
#64
I'm sure he's talking about the general attitude that the average bassist has about keeping it simple and not bothering to advance their ability because they "play bass, not guitar" or something like that.
 
#65
There is nothing wrong with doing what works.
In the case of bass and bass lines, what works the best is going unnoticed.
There is nothing restrictive or self depricating in this statement and it works in a lot of areas other than music.
Coders, engineers, interface designers will tell you that their work should go unnoticed and that simpler is usually better.
Even scientists tend to think so. Occam's razor doesn't say anything else.
 
#66
I think there's a lot of confusion among bassists about what a proper bassline is or what the right technique is. The truth is the best bassline is the one that fits your style and the music.

Sayings like this are at best guidelines and not rules. Sometimes I want to play a busy bassline cause I think the song needs it. Other times, I'm in a little doubt as what to play. In those cases, I tend to revert to basics and go simple and with the kick.

Changing things up is good anyway. It's best to not tie yourself down too tight with a set of rules.
 
#68
Jazz Ad said:
There is nothing wrong with doing what works.
In the case of bass and bass lines, what works the best is going unnoticed.
There is nothing restrictive or self depricating in this statement and it works in a lot of areas other than music.
Coders, engineers, interface designers will tell you that their work should go unnoticed and that simpler is usually better.
Even scientists tend to think so. Occam's razor doesn't say anything else.
Click to expand...

Looks like Geddy Lee never got the memo.
 
#70
Epitaph04 said:
I'm sure he's talking about the general attitude that the average bassist has about keeping it simple and not bothering to advance their ability because they "play bass, not guitar" or something like that.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is a real phenomenon, though.

The usual cycle is

player starts out, can only play simple stuff.

Then they get fast fingers and start to learn more theory, so suddenly want to play complicated parts because they think harder = better.

Then it comes full circle and they realise it's gotta be dialed back. Back to simple parts, but played well. The player that can play complex but chooses to be simple is, I think, a thing to be admired. It's funny, I also practice a martial art and the same things happen. It's around the middle where guys get obsessed with all these complicated moves, meanwhile the old master is whooping everyone's butt with the basics

Is cliff williams of ACDC selling himself short? I bet he'd play 99% of us here under the table if given the chance
 
#72
shrimpflea said:
I'm one of the oppressed
I play only 4 string basses...w/flats
I try to play simply
I don't use effects
I use the words "groove" and "in the pocket" all the time
I don't like standing out...I like being in the background
I'm JimmyM's worst nightmare!
Click to expand...
Not at all! I'm all about finding your own way and your own voice. If that's to play simply and be in the background, hey, Cliff Williams. And there are times where I'm even taking a backseat role to the other guys in the band as well ;) I'm just saying it doesn't have to be like that for those who don't want to follow that path.
 
#74
oboylebass said:
Funny thing...the average audience member doesn't even know the difference between a bass and a guitar. And the vast majority of them don't know or much less care who's "the best".
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Sorry but I don't do lowest common denominators on my gigs. Yeah, there are some musical morons out there but the audience is way more sophisticated than we like to kid ourselves into believing. They may not know all the notes, but they know when it sounds good and when it sounds like crap at the very least. Seen plenty of bands booed off the stage to prove it.
 
#76
Each to their own and everything, but I don't get it either. Why would you put hours and hours of work into something just to be totally anonymous..? I mean yeah, engineers and the like do tend to go unnoticed, but then they don't get up in front of hundreds/thousands of people in a public forum to do their thing :D
 
#77
I have noticed two distinct personalities in bassists after several decades of teaching, playing and observation:
Eeyore-a little introverted, pretty conservative in technique, bassists' role, etc. Usually standing in the back and grooving with the drums. Generally low key.
Tigger-extroverted, pushes the envelope a little, tries different things, generally carries themselves like a lead instrument in personality, stage presence, etc.
I've found this in both DB and BG world. After some serious self-examination I have to out myself as a Tigger....;)
 
#78
Roy Vogt said:
I have noticed two distinct personalities in bassists after several decades of teaching, playing and observation:
Eeyore-a little introverted, pretty conservative in technique, bassists' role, etc. Usually standing in the back and grooving with the drums. Generally low key.
Tigger-extroverted, pushes the envelope a little, tries different things, generally carries themselves like a lead instrument in personality, stage presence, etc.
I've found this in both DB and BG world. After some serious self-examination I have to out myself as a Tigger....;)
Click to expand...

Its all about striking the balance. There is a difference between pushing the envelopes and potential and trying to proof a point because one is insecure. I have seen bassists on stage who thinks they are the ****. You know, those who during soundcheck likes to shred slap incoherent notes which may seem impressive to uneducated musicians but when it comes to the song, they're playing constantly outta time and cant keep the groove.

I have been guilty of being that for awhile. I mean, I tried to slap on my first day of playing bass because I thought 'it was cool'. And my bandmates at that time seemed impressed when I could bust out 'higher ground' albeit its outta time. I find out what a metronome does until a year later :eek:

Ultimately, remember that most of the biggest songs have relatively simple basslines. And I do not believe that the bassists(touring and recording artistes) on those song dont have the technical capability to play something more fanciful, but its due to the fact they know their role and dont let their ego get in their way they keep it simple.

I am writing in an original rock band right now, and even tho I try to be flea and geddy lee, I constantly ask myself if its the best thing for the song? Heck, even flea sticks to just root notes from time to time.

Well that's what I try to do, but I the mistake of overplaying sometimes:bassist:
 
#79
lancimouspitt said:
Maybe i'm being too broad here,taking a leap without thinking of the consequences,but sometimes I think (and I guess you could apply this to any instrument),we as players get hung up too much on what has worked and not thinking of what "could" work.
Click to expand...
+1

I can tell by some of the responses that some people just don't get that there is more than one role for the bass. As Oliver Peck said, "Haters got to hate."

The thing that is so incredibly arrogant about people spouting the "serve the song" crap is the implication that they somehow have the authority to decide what best serves the song. They seem to think that their judgment should prevail and if you are playing more notes than they like, then you are wrong.
 

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