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Bassists as influential as guitarists?
- Thread starter Diddywah
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- bassists guitarists
The first two posts kinda say it all.
Bass players are a singular, insular group that live in a bit of a bubble. We love the bass, but Joe and Jane Average don't know a guitar from a bass, nor can they pick the bass line out of the mix.
People know someone like Geddy Lee because he is the singer\face of Rush; providing they know who Rush is, which isn't a lot. People know Flea because he is a whack job, so people know him, not the bass player of RHCP. Les Claypool is somewhere between those two.
Jaco is the Jimmy Hendrix of bass, but I would put money on people knowing his name more than Jaco's. People could hear a Hendrix or SRV lick and know who it was, or just see a picture and know them. Not so with bass. Metal guitarists literally make pilgrimages to Randy Rhoades or Dimebags graves annually. No one does that for Jaco, Cliff, or Jamerson. No one accept bass players gives an F about Pino, and frankly I think that is just Talkbass and the "pro" bubble.
Sorry, but bass players are second class musical citizens. We are roadies that get to play with the band. It sucks donkey nads and I hate it, but just go to the average MI store and you will figure out quickly that we don't matter. The world is made up of ignorant and ungrateful cretins; what do you want?
Bass players are a singular, insular group that live in a bit of a bubble. We love the bass, but Joe and Jane Average don't know a guitar from a bass, nor can they pick the bass line out of the mix.
People know someone like Geddy Lee because he is the singer\face of Rush; providing they know who Rush is, which isn't a lot. People know Flea because he is a whack job, so people know him, not the bass player of RHCP. Les Claypool is somewhere between those two.
Jaco is the Jimmy Hendrix of bass, but I would put money on people knowing his name more than Jaco's. People could hear a Hendrix or SRV lick and know who it was, or just see a picture and know them. Not so with bass. Metal guitarists literally make pilgrimages to Randy Rhoades or Dimebags graves annually. No one does that for Jaco, Cliff, or Jamerson. No one accept bass players gives an F about Pino, and frankly I think that is just Talkbass and the "pro" bubble.
Sorry, but bass players are second class musical citizens. We are roadies that get to play with the band. It sucks donkey nads and I hate it, but just go to the average MI store and you will figure out quickly that we don't matter. The world is made up of ignorant and ungrateful cretins; what do you want?
Yeah....its depressing, but I guess you are right guys, nobody cares about bass in rock or pop music....maybe I had one to many discussing this with a guitarist....
I had a strange experience with the (female) singer in a band I play in almost every week. Usually I bring a -76 fretless Fender P that has a natural wood finish and is a little beat up too. This time I brought my new (to me) warwick Jack Bruce, a fretted necktrough finished in glossy red. She looked at it and said; did you finally paint your bass?
So, she didn't know frets from fretless or a P bass with standard black P pu's from a more SG type shape with two big chrome pickups....
Even singers don't care then....
I had a strange experience with the (female) singer in a band I play in almost every week. Usually I bring a -76 fretless Fender P that has a natural wood finish and is a little beat up too. This time I brought my new (to me) warwick Jack Bruce, a fretted necktrough finished in glossy red. She looked at it and said; did you finally paint your bass?
So, she didn't know frets from fretless or a P bass with standard black P pu's from a more SG type shape with two big chrome pickups....
Even singers don't care then....
@socialleper pretty much banged that on the head, as bass players we barely register. In my professional years I take most pride in my bass experiences but am more known for my work as a sound (monitor) engineer and in some cases as a driver. I got most of those gigs because i happened to be the available bass player when the player on tour got arrested, broke his arm or leg or just plain vanished (I swear I had nothing to do with any of them).
Carol Kaye. Maybe. Possibly
To the broader public, no other bass players register.
To the broader public, no other bass players register.
Uh hello, Paul McCartney???
All world bass extraordinaire. Put bass guitar on the map in my book. I Saw Her Standing There is still the bomb diggity to me.
How about ol' boy Sting?
Not to shabby. What are the others dude's names in the band?
John Entwistle??
Chris Squire, Gene Simmons, Nikki Six, lots of famous bass players. Brian Wilson?!
All world bass extraordinaire. Put bass guitar on the map in my book. I Saw Her Standing There is still the bomb diggity to me.
How about ol' boy Sting?
Not to shabby. What are the others dude's names in the band?
John Entwistle??
Chris Squire, Gene Simmons, Nikki Six, lots of famous bass players. Brian Wilson?!
Yes. Everyone knows Paul... as a Beatle. Not a bassist, per se. Most boomer non-musicians I've discussed the Beatles with assume he's a guitar player.
The most famous and well-known bass players among non-musicians are also usually lead singers who are more known for being the singer: Lemmy, McCartney, Sting, Gene Simmons, Lemmy.
I'm really surprised with the glooly/pessimistic/depressing things people are saying here. I don't agree with the general point of view of people so far.
To avoid any confution let's be clear, Guitar and therefor guitar players are more common, better known and therefor more influencial in popular western music, period (and there is nothing wrong with that). But also, let's be clear that "normal people" doesn't know $h&t about music in general, a lot of people doesn't even pay attention to it, they listen it on the radio, a party and that's it. The you have another piece of the population that likes music but they listen to whatever companies are selling that day. And then you have people that really likes music some becuase they are fans fo a band of artist likebelonging to a tribe. Most of those (and I'm not judging anyone here, everyone is free to live the way they want and enjoy things the way they want) are not even aware of the amount of instruments and variety of things there are, not only the bass.
I rember once I was on the line to buy tickets to a concert on a theatre and there was this very old lady waiting to buy tickets as well, sunddenly a guy with a double bassarrives (also to buy tickets) with his behemot gig bag. The old lady, very interested, asked him if that was a saxophone....
Now, I'm not bashing on the old lady or laughing of her, they reality is, people usually doesn't know, and that's it, the same way many of us are abosolutely ignorants on many many topics. But is not jsut the bass, is all of the isntruments. Yes, electric guitar is, today, the most popular instrument, therefor, people know them better. Then, drums are quite easy to identify, but all the others... people just doesn't know.
But when we get to the other people (always tlaking non-musicians) that really likes music and enjoys it, well, those usually know, those know instruments by ther names, those know who the bass player is in that record, and who the clarinet player is in that other one. I have met plenty of people that never in their life put hands on an instrument that were well aware of the roles of each one on the band.
Going back to the main subject of the thread, I would say the simple answer is no, guitar playes are more influential than bass players in general. But if you want to go deeper, it really depends.
On classical music, guitar was a very mistreated instrument for a long time, and even today, piano players are way more influential than guitar players. On Jazz the title could be more disputed, and although there are amazing jazz guitar players, again, keys I think have more influence. And on Funk, for example, bass players have the lead if you ask me.
Even when guitar and guitar players are more infleuntial than bass and bass players, there are plenty of influential bass players out there, you may not like some of them, but people like: Sting, Steve Harris, Bootsy Colins, Geddy Lee, Jaco, Paul MacCartney, Les Claypool, Roger Waters, Ron Carter, etc, etc.
They are well known for the peoiple that enjoy the style of music they do, they are central figures on their bands and people recognice them and they influence other musicians.
And I left out of that list people like Carol Kaye (I absolutely love her), James Jemerson, Willie Dixon, Tony Levin and many many others that are legends but (I beleive) maybe not as well known.
I'm not talkiing here about the best players or anything like that, just to be clear...
As I said, yes, guitar players are way more influencial in general than any other musicians, but from there to say that only bass players cares about bass... I think is ridiculous (and I'm not trying to offend anyone, please don't take it personal)
To avoid any confution let's be clear, Guitar and therefor guitar players are more common, better known and therefor more influencial in popular western music, period (and there is nothing wrong with that). But also, let's be clear that "normal people" doesn't know $h&t about music in general, a lot of people doesn't even pay attention to it, they listen it on the radio, a party and that's it. The you have another piece of the population that likes music but they listen to whatever companies are selling that day. And then you have people that really likes music some becuase they are fans fo a band of artist likebelonging to a tribe. Most of those (and I'm not judging anyone here, everyone is free to live the way they want and enjoy things the way they want) are not even aware of the amount of instruments and variety of things there are, not only the bass.
I rember once I was on the line to buy tickets to a concert on a theatre and there was this very old lady waiting to buy tickets as well, sunddenly a guy with a double bassarrives (also to buy tickets) with his behemot gig bag. The old lady, very interested, asked him if that was a saxophone....
Now, I'm not bashing on the old lady or laughing of her, they reality is, people usually doesn't know, and that's it, the same way many of us are abosolutely ignorants on many many topics. But is not jsut the bass, is all of the isntruments. Yes, electric guitar is, today, the most popular instrument, therefor, people know them better. Then, drums are quite easy to identify, but all the others... people just doesn't know.
But when we get to the other people (always tlaking non-musicians) that really likes music and enjoys it, well, those usually know, those know instruments by ther names, those know who the bass player is in that record, and who the clarinet player is in that other one. I have met plenty of people that never in their life put hands on an instrument that were well aware of the roles of each one on the band.
Going back to the main subject of the thread, I would say the simple answer is no, guitar playes are more influential than bass players in general. But if you want to go deeper, it really depends.
On classical music, guitar was a very mistreated instrument for a long time, and even today, piano players are way more influential than guitar players. On Jazz the title could be more disputed, and although there are amazing jazz guitar players, again, keys I think have more influence. And on Funk, for example, bass players have the lead if you ask me.
Even when guitar and guitar players are more infleuntial than bass and bass players, there are plenty of influential bass players out there, you may not like some of them, but people like: Sting, Steve Harris, Bootsy Colins, Geddy Lee, Jaco, Paul MacCartney, Les Claypool, Roger Waters, Ron Carter, etc, etc.
They are well known for the peoiple that enjoy the style of music they do, they are central figures on their bands and people recognice them and they influence other musicians.
And I left out of that list people like Carol Kaye (I absolutely love her), James Jemerson, Willie Dixon, Tony Levin and many many others that are legends but (I beleive) maybe not as well known.
I'm not talkiing here about the best players or anything like that, just to be clear...
As I said, yes, guitar players are way more influencial in general than any other musicians, but from there to say that only bass players cares about bass... I think is ridiculous (and I'm not trying to offend anyone, please don't take it personal)
Meh. I'm more impressed by drummers playin a sick groove and messin with the beat. However, quality recordings of killer bass players really get my inner tone geek engine revin' to the red line.
I was going to say "Depends on what you mean by 'influential'; you mean musically, to students of jazz, or in terms of the popularization of jazz, such as it is"? But the answer is probably the same - in neither case are bassists as influential as guitar players, generally speaking. Jaco is the standout exception. And you know what they say. The exception proves the rule.
Sadly, this level of observation is much more common than I would have believed as a young idealist. It's not just musicians.
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Those considered the most influential bassists amongst the general public aren't influential because they're bassists, no matter how good they are (or aren't). They're influential because they're a face or the face of a huge band. This group includes guys like Sting, McCartney, Flea, Gene Simmons, Peter Cetera & Brian Wilson. Rick James. Roger Waters maybe.
Fronting bassists like Geddy, Claypool, Mark King they're influential to bassists as bassists. Excellent, accomplished musicians without argument. But they aren't fronting huge acts and so the general public could care less about them.
Non-fronting bassists can forget it. Ain't none of them (except Flea) influencing the general public.
Fronting bassists like Geddy, Claypool, Mark King they're influential to bassists as bassists. Excellent, accomplished musicians without argument. But they aren't fronting huge acts and so the general public could care less about them.
Non-fronting bassists can forget it. Ain't none of them (except Flea) influencing the general public.
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Doug Parent
Supporting Member
What the rest of the world thinks doesn't matter. We are all fortunate to have found the nether regions. What... that sounds oddly off color. Never mind.
