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Bassist's Guide to Singing

#82
Deacon_Blues said:
The vocal cords themselves don't need warm-up in the sense you need to sing something before being able to sing properly, but what you might need is a light physical warm-up of various parts of your body, like stomach, shoulders, throat and mouth area. Think of it: There's lots and lots singers that never warm up and still sound good from the very first note to the last. How come? They're not supernatural in any way. What they have is good technique.

As for going into a hard vocal part, you need to have full control over your technique. Have anyone ever explained exactly how you should form your throat (shape of the epiglottis tunnel, larynx and cheek position) or how you need tweak the vowels you sing to reach those notes? I bet the answer is no, unless you have studied CVT. For the record, I now know five main ways to reach a high C (the famous tenor high C) from quiet to screamy, and I can tweak the sound of from dark to light and add distortion if I want (ok, I'm still working on that last part, but I'm convinced I will learn it properly).



Think whatever you want, but don't judge it before you know anything about it. So, I challenge you to check out all there is about CVT. Then show me a method that is better and as complete as this, and I will shut up. As a start, read this:

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Also check out the video page (link in my previous post). It's not BS or just new terminology for old known things. The method wouldn't have gained very much attention or recognition if that would have been the case. My singing teacher, for instance, abandoned everything she had learned about vocal technique while majoring in music, and is now using CVT exclusively.

You're right in the way Catherine Sadolin didn't invent anything new. What she have done is extensive research to analyze exactly how the voice works, and how to create all kinds of sounds in a healthy way without favoring a certain sound (like opera, pop or rock). That have not been properly done before.



I know I probably sound like a CVT evangelist, and perhaps I am one. I just believe it's the best vocal method out there as it's suitable for singers of all genres, and therefore I want to help spread the word about it.

EDIT:
Here's some external links to reviews etc. about CVT (in google's order):
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http://www.charlottewolfsberg.dk/en_00.php
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http://www.mayavocals.dk/my_story_mayavocalssite.html

Sorry, I didn't find anything negative about the technique after about half an hour of googling....
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That's great that you found something that works for you, but I've read the site, everything described is something I've already come across from other vocal teachers or courses, just descibed in different terms.

About warming up, yes the vocal cords do need a warmup. Singers who just sing great without a warmup have been singing for a while and are conditioned.

I've never heard a singer that didn't sound better after a couple of songs into a set. Even a really good one.

A singer who is new but with the same range is more apt to hurt themselves without some sort of warmup.

I'm not saying you need a half hour of just warmup, just something to get the blood flowing real good.

I've been singing for many years, I can do my hardest stuff without a warmup, but it's always easier if warm up first.
 
#83
I think one of the best things with CVT is that it only focuses on making the various sounds in a healthy way. It doesn't favour a specific sound over another, like what mostly is the case in let's say classical singing. (This is probably also the reason why many singers never take any lessons; they don't want to get forced into the "classical" sound). There's too many people teaching their students that sounds like distortion, growl or screaming cannot be done in a healthy way, which is kind of stupid because there's lots of evidence (artists) showing it is possible by doing it over and over.

The other great thing with CVT is that all sounds are explained in physiological terms; i.e. what actually happens in the throat, mouth etc when you sing in different ways. CVT could become a world standard for singing/voice control because of this. I think the world really needs ONE standard for singing, as the current situation with too many different singing techniques even pulling in opposite directions is pretty unfortunate. I'm not saying CVT is the only correct technique, but I rather choose one technique teaching how all sounds can be made, instead of several different ones that even might stand in contradiction to each other.

For you people (like Riley) that want to learn what for instance the singer in Opeth does, check out CVT. Ask a question on the CVT forum and you probably get an answer. Anyway, I think I could help a bit too: If you want to find that non-pitched, deep "evil" sound he does, try finding the Louis Armstrong trademark sound and leave out the pitch (vocalized sound) so only the oscillating effect and the sound of the air flowing out is left. If it hurts in some way or it feels like it will make you hoarse or you need to cough, you haven't found the right way to do it yet. Don't try to do it too loud either when you find it. If you do it properly (i.e. it doesn't hurt or make you hoarse) you are perfectly able to sing whatever you want afterwards, just like the singer in Opeth does. (I just have to add that I haven't gotten the CVT book yet to confirm this is correctly explained. I've only got info about CVT through my teacher and the web. I can do this stuff that the Opeth singer does, it just isn't my cup of tea...)
 
#84
Light%20Bulb.jpg


:O TOTALLY AWESOME IDEA!

we should make a post your best rock scream thread :D that would be AWESOME!! just record your rockscream and upload it... then people looking for tips can ask the person they want to emulate
 
#86
The guitar player in most cases can hear the vocal parts in the chords that they are playing. Bass players don't have that luxury. Also the guitar player doesn't have to pay close attention to the kick in most cases either. In some cases my vocal capabilites have become a detriment to my playing. Alot more lead vox than I would like. Sometimes I wish i could stand at the kit and not have any vocal parts at all. But the classic covers will not allow that....BOO HISS HAHA
 
#87
shoaboat said:
The guitar player in most cases can hear the vocal parts in the chords that they are playing. Bass players don't have that luxury. Also the guitar player doesn't have to pay close attention to the kick in most cases either. In some cases my vocal capabilites have become a detriment to my playing. Alot more lead vox than I would like. Sometimes I wish i could stand at the kit and not have any vocal parts at all. But the classic covers will not allow that....BOO HISS HAHA
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Actually I play bass and do all the vocals in my band. I've found that with quite a few cover songs you can marry bass note hits to word in a vocal melody.

Sure some songs are neigh impossible if the bass is real busy or intricate and can't be married to the bass playing in any way.

Right now I'm trying to learn thunderkiss 65 by rob zombie. fun song on the bass, but I don't know if I'll be able to sing it at the same time.

I started out singing first so my voice was in place before taking up the bass, so it was a little easier for me in that respect.
 
#88
I started a one man band with just guitar and drum machine a few years ago, I did all the singing. A while ago I added a guitarist and moved over to bass (which was my primary instrument long before I started this specific project). I found I HAD to play with a pick in order to sing over bass. For me, there is something a lot more rhythmic about playing with a pick, even if you aren't constantly moving your hand, it allows me to stay on time fairly well. It's a little weird though, because prior to that, I'd been playing exclusively with my fingers for over 6 years. I was thinking of forming some kind of weird thumb and finger technique that would emulate the motion of picking yet allow me the freedom and tone of fingerstyle, but I think I've gotten to a point with the pick where I've come to prefer what it offers me.

... I'm not really going anywhere with this story.
 
#89
Hi,... so... i was forced to sing this one time. and some kind of madness happened :P i really like it!
problem is... i cant sing that well... YET!
i couldnt find the courage at this hour *12:30 midnight here* to scoop trough all the pages for ways to improve singing.
So,.. can anyone tell me where they are or quote them or something? *this topic is getting large you know, maybe time for a "1 post" for and tech and practice things?
or cant this be done?

sorry for the lazyness... if noone replys ill have to go search some other time... right now... need to get some sleep. but! im superpsyched about it :D that why i posted...

*WHAMMY, falls asleep on desk*
 
#90
When I was younger, I would sing all the time. I was in Chorus class from ~1st grade to 9th grade. I never recorded myself back then, so I can't really say for sure if I was any good, but my relatives seemed to think I was good and always encouraged me to sing. After 9th grade I went into a depression and started getting into hard rock and heavy metal; now instead of singing all the time, I was screaming all the time. I would often scream until I lost my voice or coughed up blood(not good).

Anyway, I got thru the depression and lost the desire to scream, but now when I try to sing I get this tickle/itch in my throat the causes me to start coughing. I'm pretty sure that my voice is trashed, but if anyone has any thoughts about how to fix it, or if it sounds like I'm doing something wrong, I'd be glad to hear it. Otherwise, let this be a warning to those who aren't taking care of their voice.
 
#91
I have found that the better that I get at bass, the more difficult it is to be a lead singer. In my younger days, I was fine with just playing the bass note of the chord alone and providing some rhythm. Now that I've improved on the bass, I'm trying more intricate things and it's become very challenging to sing the melody. Now I choose to sing lead on the easy songs, and let someone else sing the melody where I want to "kick 'er" It was tough at first since I've always been the lead singer, but now I really enjoying doing the background vocals. Plus I feel more in step with the drummer when I can shut my mouth and open my ears.
 
#92
HollowBassman said:
When I was younger, I would sing all the time. I was in Chorus class from ~1st grade to 9th grade. I never recorded myself back then, so I can't really say for sure if I was any good, but my relatives seemed to think I was good and always encouraged me to sing. After 9th grade I went into a depression and started getting into hard rock and heavy metal; now instead of singing all the time, I was screaming all the time. I would often scream until I lost my voice or coughed up blood(not good).

Anyway, I got thru the depression and lost the desire to scream, but now when I try to sing I get this tickle/itch in my throat the causes me to start coughing. I'm pretty sure that my voice is trashed, but if anyone has any thoughts about how to fix it, or if it sounds like I'm doing something wrong, I'd be glad to hear it. Otherwise, let this be a warning to those who aren't taking care of their voice.
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That doesn't sound good. Rule #1 is that it should never tickle, itch or feel wrong in any way when you sing, even if you scream, use a distorted sound or both. It's all possible with the right technique and healthy throat. I've been praising CVT in this thread (check my earlier posts), and not without a reason. It's helped me a lot, and while on the subject vocal damage - Catherine Sadolin, the "inventor" of CVT, is also famous for her "voice healing" abilities. The CVT book is filled with small case stories about when she have successfully been helping singers of very different genres - death/heavy metal to opera - with their specific problems.

There's a good chapter in the book regarding hoarseness and vocal damage, I just don't have the book in front of me now. Anyway, It seems like you do have some kind of vocal damage. I can't tell how severe it is, though. Can you speak cleanly? If so, the problem is likely not that bad. You use the same vocal folds in both cases... :)

However, if you experience problems with speaking too, you might want to check out this page on vocal fold nodules: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_fold_nodule. Nodules are among the worst problems a singer can have, and they are developed after constant misuse of the voice. They might in some cases need to be removed using surgery, but I've read that it's often enough with a couple of weeks TOTAL silence followed by vocal/speech training. Whether you have nodules or not, I'd recommend you to see a doctor to tell you what your problem is.

I've come to realize that in order to sing continuously for longer times - may it sound as clean or trashy as you want - you need to do it in a healthy way. The only way is to have good technique. Most sounds are possible to produce healthily. It's just a matter of knowing how. CVT provides an excellent map of the voice, what you can do and what's unhealthy. There's a brief introduction to CVT on their homepage, but if you or anyone else really want to get into it, the book is more or less a must-have. 200 pages can't be shortened down to a few web pages without leaving out some important information.


I hope you get your vocal problems sorted out. Start with going to see a doctor. They should be able to help you out.

:)
 
#93
heymelbs said:
I have found that the better that I get at bass, the more difficult it is to be a lead singer. In my younger days, I was fine with just playing the bass note of the chord alone and providing some rhythm. Now that I've improved on the bass, I'm trying more intricate things and it's become very challenging to sing the melody. Now I choose to sing lead on the easy songs, and let someone else sing the melody where I want to "kick 'er" It was tough at first since I've always been the lead singer, but now I really enjoying doing the background vocals. Plus I feel more in step with the drummer when I can shut my mouth and open my ears.
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That is exactly my situation. I'm basically a lead singer and as I have gotten better at the bass, it tends to affect my singing. There are times we are working on a song and I got some really cool bass licks for it, but when I try to put the vocals in, I can't do it. I then either have to compromise the vocal melody or compromise the bass parts. I sometimes just tell the guitar player to handle the vocals for some songs. Does anyone have any recommendations on singing and playing bass at the same time without compromising either? If that is possible.
 
#95
LLink24 said:
Here is a singing resource:
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And does anyone have some good hard rock / metal vocal advice? The lighter stuff just isn't my thing.
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I'm assuming you mean for the rock screams/rasps. Best advice for screaming.

1. Don't feel it in the throat. Make sure you feel it resonate in the head and or mouth cavities. Feeling the rasp in your throat will hurt you.

2. Let the mic do the heavy lifting. Guys who have to do it every day know how to use just the amount of energy they need and not force the sound. You'll see noobs to screaming forcing as much as they possibly can and their face turning red and veins sticking out.....these same guys will be hoarse after about one song, while someone who lets the mic do the heavy lifting will be able to do a whole set and then do it the next day as well. Moral of the story, even rock screaming should be produced by being as relaxed as possible. The more you force the worse it will sound.
 
#96
Luckily I was a singer before a bassist(I grew up in the 60's)and rock and roll swept people of my ilk.I can tell you singing and playin bass is much harder to do,I was singing and playing guitar and when I went to bass it was like something totally new.I do remember keeping my walking bass line much more minimal when I first started to sinag and play bass kind of easy and over time it got much easier,today it is second nature.I knew I mastered this when with my oldies band I covered All my Lovin by the Beatles,this is no small feat and I new I arrived as a singing bassist when I was able to do this,you should give it a try,today I write songs and some are written on the bass and tend to be riffy but because I stayed with it it becomes second nature and dont forget singing bassists are always in demand.I believe there are several schools of thought to approaching bass but as a fellow bassist I respect all of you
 
#97
My advice for singing is...drink 4 stiff mixed drinks, smoke 2 cigarettes, and you won't care what it sounds like ;) On a serious note, i sang in chorus' for 5 years and the most important thing i feel is confedence and breathing. The rest is just practice at tuning your voice, but with out confedence you won't pull the full potential and without breating, you won't get the right tone. Plus not breathing leads to death...sometimes.
 
#98
thanks for all of the tips and comments in this thread. i may have missed it but if i can add my two cents in, here has been my experience.

i love playing bass. if i never had to sing it would never bother me. but there are certain tunes that grab me whether original or cover that i feel a need to belt it out...yet i ran in to a problem. when trying to sing, i noticed that i was so wrapped up / consumed with playing my bass, that i couldn't concentrate on singing properly. that's when i realized.....if i wanted to sing, i had to separate myself from playing the bass.....still play....but not be all consumed by it like i normally am. wow.....what a daunting task...separate myself from what i love to do , so that i could do something else that i don't love as much.....it works. after getting over separation axiety of my emotions / playing, it started to flow, and flow easily....as long as you have the basics and fundamentals wired in so that you don't have to think about it. if you want to sing and play bass, you have to get to the point were you can just play the tune and not get emotionally involved (bass playing)...and leave the emoting to singing. it's truly a bitter sweet experience.
 

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