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Bassist's Guide to Singing

#61
well im taking real vocal lessons right now and i can verify that most of what was said was true. i do, however, disagree with how breathing was described. this is what my vocal teacher said (and this is from a basic classical standpoint):

to have true control of your voice, u need to breathe from the abdomen. in fact, your chest shouldnt move at all (this may be hard to picture, but i'll try my best). while standing up straight, release your abdominals and let your gut pop out. if you are relaxed, with an open mouth you will feel the air flow in automatically (as opposed to being sucked in). when u sing, make your abdominals squeeze that bulge back into your body gradually.

what this all means: by breathing through your abdomen, you take in less air (less air?? why would that be a good thing??). when u sing, u have better control and you can make more use out of the air u have. you can see this breathing in action when u watch a good brass player. their shoulders and chest will not expand at all when they breathe. if you try this and it feels like doing sit-ups, thats the way its supposed to feel.

now, different physical techniques work better for different styles of music, but this type of breathing is a strong foundation for good singing in general.
 
#63
Hi,

Thought I should add a link here to the "Complete Vocal Technique" method, developed by Cathrine Sadolin, a Danish singer. It works for anyone and for all styles of music, from classical to heavy metal to jazz.... No BS. The website contains a lot of great info.


Link Removed


I just started taking singing lessons. When my teacher learned about this technique, she got so overwhelmed by it so that's all she's teaching nowadays... Needless to say, my expectations are high.. :)
 
#64
I found the biggest challenge to playing bass and singing is the rhythm involved. Locking in with a drummer while singing off beat from what your playing is harder than guitarists even let on to because they are playing with a pick.

The way to rectify this is to pick up a pick, or play with one finger. I try to play with one finger whenever possible, and it does help simplify my parts as well as singing. In the past I have used a pick to help out and clean up my sound, however the one finger technique works wonders.
 
#65
joelb79 said:
I found the biggest challenge to playing bass and singing is the rhythm involved. Locking in with a drummer while singing off beat from what your playing is harder than guitarists even let on to because they are playing with a pick.

The way to rectify this is to pick up a pick, or play with one finger. I try to play with one finger whenever possible, and it does help simplify my parts as well as singing. In the past I have used a pick to help out and clean up my sound, however the one finger technique works wonders.
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Agreed the rhythm differences between the vocals and the bassline is the thing making this tricky, but that playing with a pick or one finger only would help??? I strongly doubt that.... The only way I could see that being helpful is if you're strumming with your pick like on a guitar and mute the notes you don't want to hear to make the rhythm. That might work.
 
#66
I can only speak of what works for me for singing and playing bass at the same time.

The first thing I did was write my own songs, about four of them, so I didn't have to worry if they were correctly played. I can already sing on key so no problem there. I just purposely made the songs really simple in the parts where I sang, and added anything more flashy in a non singing part.

That made it easier to approach covers. Now I learn the bass first and map out where the words marry with bass lines, and where they fit inbetween bass notes. And of course I pick easier to play covers. Usually the stuff people like to hear is simpler anyway

After a while your hands seperate from what you are thinking about if you practice and just do it, and allow you to get fancier with the singing. .....easier if you have a very steady drummer.

Of course some songs I'm probably never going to be able to play and sing at the same time. I checked out some songs for "appetite for destruction." Not real complicated bass lines, but quick and the bass player is really locked in and hitting every note with the bass drum in a way that is hard to splice with lyrics.

Like I said though I think the best way to get it kick started it to write a few of your own songs.
 
#67
joelb79 said:
I found the biggest challenge to playing bass and singing is the rhythm involved. Locking in with a drummer while singing off beat from what your playing is harder than guitarists even let on to because they are playing with a pick.

The way to rectify this is to pick up a pick, or play with one finger. I try to play with one finger whenever possible, and it does help simplify my parts as well as singing. In the past I have used a pick to help out and clean up my sound, however the one finger technique works wonders.
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+++1 on the one finger thing, it does make it alot easier
 
#68
Take a deep belly breath, tichten your belly as though someone were going to hit you down there and then sing. I've been told that I'm a good bass player and I sing lead on about 1/2 my bands tunes and backup on the other 1/2 so I sing as much as I play bass. You are singing one part and playing the other. At 1st you have to keep the bass part as simple as possible and concentrate on singing. Like anything else we do, the more you do it the easier it becomes. I've been told by my band mates that I often play better bass lines while I'm singing than when not. Most of the time I'm hoping I don't screw anything up.
 
#69
Big Joe said:
I'll be honest here... I'm not familiar with the music you listed.

I'll say it again because it is worth repeating: There is no proper or safe way to scream. Good diaphragmmatic control/respiratory support or not, it's not good for your voice.

Call me old fashioned, but I tend to stick on the side of years and years of scientific and medical research especially when compared to someone who simply released a DVD. I'll be googling it shortly, but this like releasing a DVD that says you can constantly send a clipped signal from a high-wattage amp to a 1X10 speaker without ever damaging it.
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I'll say it again and it's worth repeating as well. You openly admitted not understanding the style or technique and should refrain from speaking about it.

Your obviously knowledgeable on physiology, but you should look into the methods that are taught before making a blanket statement. Your comparison to the high watt amp and speaker shows me you haven't researched this style at all.

I'm really tired of hearing this tired drum being beat by people who are actually perpetuating the problem and causing damage.

That's right, your advice actually does contribute to these guys hurting themselves. I'll get to exactly how after adressing the topic in general.

I'm a vocal coach.I've taught many people how to add grit to thier tone and even as far as "screaming" without damaging the voice or traumatising thier health.

The video that was suggested to you is taught by a person with classical training and has medical explanations and a doctors internal camera showing the consequence of improper technique. It has a solid foundation in traditional singing techniques and a doctors input.

The video is taught by Melissa Cross. I've dealt with her myself and teach many of the same techniques. She's worked with almost every top name of the heavy musical spectrum. If she were blowing thier voices to shreds I'm sure she would no longer be in buisness. She also wouldn't have the clientel she does.

The brief explanation is that you are apparently under the same misconception that most singers in this style are until they get training. High velocity pushes of air and straining / locking up the throat are not the way to do grit or screaming effectively.

There are ways to get the tone of a scream without the enormous force and damage you would normally associate with a full out yell. It also makes a much more agressive sound than a normal road rage type of scream would create.

For people into that style i would reccomend finding an established vocal teacher who knows the style and can provide some references from students using thier method. Since this agressive sound has become more popular, several really good teachers have started to adress it.

To wrap this up and explain how people like you are contributing to the problem, here's my experience from teaching.

I get many if not most of my students from a physicians referral. I'm sure your suprised at that. He works in my area, and has a full understanding of my techniques. He has a practice that specializes in musicians and performers.

Everything from tendonitis to severe throat damage.

Everytime i have my initial interview with a student that has been to him, I ask the same question and always get the same answer.

"How did you damage your voice so severly before seeking help"?

"Well, I kept getting told there was no way to do it right, so i stopped looking for help. I love my music and i have to do it the way i hear it, so i figured i'd just have to accept the problems and deal with it".

These artists are not gonna give up the music they love because you just tell them not to do it. Giving your opinion without more current knowledge of how this music can be performed and what's involved in it is contributing to extremely unhealthy practices.

I'm sure as a medical professional you would be concerned with that and look into it further.

I don't mean to come off as hostile, but it's a consistant problem and it becomes infuriating seeing young performers causing nearly irrepairable damage to themselves because people in your position took away thier motivation to get help and learn how to do it properly.

Best of luck to you and your practice.
 
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#70
Good post, DistortedBass.

To say it in a shorter version, there are perfectly safe ways to scream ridiculously high-pitched notes, also with distortion. However, there's an indefinite number of ways to do it the wrong way and it's not very easy to find the right way.

If you're a vocal coach, check out the link in post #63. My singing teacher switched to teach according this method exclusively about one year ago, and is taking master classes to learn it completely. It covers every aspect of singing. End of story. ;) I strongly believe this method will be the world standard in the near future. The most remarkable difference between the traditional methods and this is that there terms like tenor or soprano don't exist in it. Same thing with "head voice" and "chest voice". Instead there are four main modes - Neutral, Curbing, Overdrive and Belting. Check them out.

EDIT: The link above didn't seem to work anymore and I couldn't edit it either. Here's the right link: Invalid Link Removed
 
#71
I have been both the bass player & lead vocalist in bands for 40 years. Before then I was a vocalist/frontman. Here's what I do: 1. learn the damn bass part until you can play it in your sleep. 2. Start singing the part but continue to put your main focus on the bass part.3. Start really working on the vocal part. 4. Record your practice performance & listen for pitch & emotional content. 5. Cry.....and then go on. 6. BREATHE & pitch will come. 7. Drink no milk(ever). 8. Use Seth Riggs warmup method. You can find his recorded product online somewhere. Trust me it works. Your 1st song will be as "on" as your 4th one usually is & you will never get too hoarse if your songs are keyed right. ( Murder the audience. Leave a few living to tell the tale but those must be bleeding.
 
#72
I havnt read this whole thread so I apologise if I am asking a question that has already been answered:

I just figured out a couple of weeks ago that I can rock scream without actually hurting my voice similar to Zack de la Rocha at the start of "sleep now in the fire" by RATM, or similar to Nic Cester in "are you gonna be my girl" by Jet (i play in a cover band).

BUT

The problem is... i can only do it after about half an hour of warming up, and when i do i often forget "how" i actually do it when singing a song that has both clean and dirty vocals and find myself rock screaming the painful way haha.

Is this just a matter of practice makes perfect? or is there a special way to look at it so that i do it on command.

and any related advice would be appreciated
 
#74
Whatever you do, don't do anything that hurts. Anything that strains or hurts will eventually screw you up. Look at Robert Plant. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have all those hits & not be able to sing them anymore.
 
#75
Moe Monsarrat said:
Whatever you do, don't do anything that hurts. Anything that strains or hurts will eventually screw you up. Look at Robert Plant. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have all those hits & not be able to sing them anymore.
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I think in robert plants case it's mostly a combination of smoking, old age, and after show parties that caused his range to go down.

Basically the same thing that happened to bon jovi, the road killed his voice.
 
#77
Warming up is not necessary in the sense you need to warm up your vocal cords. The only reason there is to do so-called warming up is to find the right vocal modes so you don't need to struggle with that in the beginning of the performance. (This is according to CVT, see my earlier posts here, and I've noticed it's perfectly true).

Riley, there are techniques for doing that. Check the videos on the page Invalid Link Removed

EDIT: On that page, make sure you check out also at least the second video of the "brief introduction to CVT by Cathrine Sadolin". She's of course female, but everything is applicable on men too.
 
#78
Deacon_Blues said:
Warming up is not necessary in the sense you need to warm up your vocal cords. The only reason there is to do so-called warming up is to find the right vocal modes so you don't need to struggle with that in the beginning of the performance. (This is according to CVT, see my earlier posts here, and I've noticed it's perfectly true).

Riley, there are techniques for doing that. Check the videos on the page Invalid Link Removed

EDIT: On that page, make sure you check out also at least the second video of the "brief introduction to CVT by Cathrine Sadolin". She's of course female, but everything is applicable on men too.
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Don't know where you got that, but it's tottally wrong. You need to warm up to get blood flow to the various vocal organs. If you don't warm up and go into a hard vocal part you can cause yourself vocal damage.

O and if your the guy that posted about the vocal teacher who made up her own terminology for already established things, thats kind of stupid.

She didn't invent anything new all she did was put her own names to things.
 
#79
ric1312 said:
Don't know where you got that, but it's tottally wrong. You need to warm up to get blood flow to the various vocal organs. If you don't warm up and go into a hard vocal part you can cause yourself vocal damage.
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The vocal cords themselves don't need warm-up in the sense you need to sing something before being able to sing properly, but what you might need is a light physical warm-up of various parts of your body, like stomach, shoulders, throat and mouth area. Think of it: There's lots and lots singers that never warm up and still sound good from the very first note to the last. How come? They're not supernatural in any way. What they have is good technique.

As for going into a hard vocal part, you need to have full control over your technique. Have anyone ever explained exactly how you should form your throat (shape of the epiglottis tunnel, larynx and cheek position) or how you need tweak the vowels you sing to reach those notes? I bet the answer is no, unless you have studied CVT. For the record, I now know five main ways to reach a high C (the famous tenor high C) from quiet to screamy, and I can tweak the sound of from dark to light and add distortion if I want (ok, I'm still working on that last part, but I'm convinced I will learn it properly).

ric1312 said:
O and if your the guy that posted about the vocal teacher who made up her own terminology for already established things, thats kind of stupid.

She didn't invent anything new all she did was put her own names to hings.
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Think whatever you want, but don't judge it before you know anything about it. So, I challenge you to check out all there is about CVT. Then show me a method that is better and as complete as this, and I will shut up. As a start, read this:

Invalid Link Removed

Also check out the video page (link in my previous post). It's not BS or just new terminology for old known things. The method wouldn't have gained very much attention or recognition if that would have been the case. My singing teacher, for instance, abandoned everything she had learned about vocal technique while majoring in music, and is now using CVT exclusively.

You're right in the way Catherine Sadolin didn't invent anything new. What she have done is extensive research to analyze exactly how the voice works, and how to create all kinds of sounds in a healthy way without favoring a certain sound (like opera, pop or rock). That have not been properly done before.



I know I probably sound like a CVT evangelist, and perhaps I am one. I just believe it's the best vocal method out there as it's suitable for singers of all genres, and therefore I want to help spread the word about it.

EDIT:
Here's some external links to reviews etc. about CVT (in google's order):
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Invalid Link Removed
http://www.charlottewolfsberg.dk/en_00.php
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http://www.mayavocals.dk/my_story_mayavocalssite.html

Sorry, I didn't find anything negative about the technique after about half an hour of googling....
 

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